1
00:00:15,540 --> 00:00:18,410
Okay, what we got today is it give

2
00:00:18,410 --> 00:00:21,380
you an understanding,
a basic understanding

3
00:00:21,380 --> 00:00:23,520
of Landlord Tenant Law
and it really is basic

4
00:00:23,520 --> 00:00:27,260
after all so let me see if I can move

5
00:00:27,260 --> 00:00:28,160
you through some of this.

6
00:00:28,160 --> 00:00:29,060
So, what do you know,

7
00:00:29,060 --> 00:00:31,470
let's give you a little
quiz to start here.

8
00:00:31,470 --> 00:00:33,750
Tenants who breach,
true false incidentally,

9
00:00:33,750 --> 00:00:35,210
tenants who breach rental agreements

10
00:00:35,210 --> 00:00:37,850
lose rights under the MRLTA?

11
00:00:37,850 --> 00:00:38,683
False.

12
00:00:41,740 --> 00:00:42,663
Any other ideas?

13
00:00:44,266 --> 00:00:45,099
50% chance.

14
00:00:45,099 --> 00:00:46,320
Partly true we'll get
to that in a little bit.

15
00:00:46,320 --> 00:00:50,753
So, once proper notice is provided

16
00:00:50,753 --> 00:00:53,057
a landlord may limit
access to the premises

17
00:00:53,057 --> 00:00:57,490
by a non-paying tenant
until rent is fully paid.

18
00:00:57,490 --> 00:00:59,330
In other words keep a tenant out

19
00:00:59,330 --> 00:01:00,490
if they don't pay the rent.

20
00:01:00,490 --> 00:01:01,630
False.

21
00:01:01,630 --> 00:01:06,370
Yeah, a landlord may
charge a non-refundable

22
00:01:06,370 --> 00:01:09,438
cleaning Fee in addition
to a security deposit.

23
00:01:09,438 --> 00:01:10,271
False.

24
00:01:11,591 --> 00:01:12,424
Okay.

25
00:01:13,260 --> 00:01:15,260
A landlord may require a tenant to have

26
00:01:15,260 --> 00:01:17,390
carpeting professionally
cleaned as a condition

27
00:01:17,390 --> 00:01:18,870
for returning the security deposit.

28
00:01:18,870 --> 00:01:20,250
-False.
-False.

29
00:01:20,250 --> 00:01:21,771
-Good.
-You told us that (mumbling).

30
00:01:21,771 --> 00:01:24,420
All right, when a landlord accepts

31
00:01:24,420 --> 00:01:27,360
a tenants rent, any breach by the tenant

32
00:01:27,360 --> 00:01:29,333
is considered waived by law.

33
00:01:30,845 --> 00:01:31,960
-False.
-False.

34
00:01:31,960 --> 00:01:34,680
Good, contents of a lease are irrelevant

35
00:01:34,680 --> 00:01:37,260
since the MRLTA governs all relationships

36
00:01:37,260 --> 00:01:38,660
between landlords and tenants.

37
00:01:38,660 --> 00:01:39,700
-False.
-False.

38
00:01:39,700 --> 00:01:41,552
Good, all right so,

39
00:01:41,552 --> 00:01:43,540
you don't even need this stuff.

40
00:01:43,540 --> 00:01:45,100
And there's a standard disclaimer

41
00:01:45,100 --> 00:01:47,330
in there that I would give to landlords

42
00:01:47,330 --> 00:01:48,479
and tenants if they were listening

43
00:01:48,479 --> 00:01:51,500
so, here's what we will not cover.

44
00:01:51,500 --> 00:01:52,333
We aren't gonna talk

45
00:01:52,333 --> 00:01:53,380
about commercial tenancies.

46
00:01:53,380 --> 00:01:55,280
You make it questions occasionally

47
00:01:55,280 --> 00:01:57,370
for students that say, and in addition

48
00:01:57,370 --> 00:01:59,530
to my house they rented

49
00:01:59,530 --> 00:02:01,860
me the garage for another $25.

50
00:02:01,860 --> 00:02:06,692
Well, it may be kind of a storage facility

51
00:02:06,692 --> 00:02:09,100
that isn't covered by the MRLTA.

52
00:02:09,100 --> 00:02:11,860
We can talk about that in more detail.

53
00:02:11,860 --> 00:02:13,880
We won't cover discrimination issues.

54
00:02:13,880 --> 00:02:16,180
In case I'm not around
when you have such a,

55
00:02:16,180 --> 00:02:17,360
and somebody comes in and says,

56
00:02:17,360 --> 00:02:20,120
you know it seems to me
that the other people

57
00:02:20,120 --> 00:02:21,830
that lived up here and
they are of a different

58
00:02:21,830 --> 00:02:23,910
race got better treatment
or worse treatment

59
00:02:23,910 --> 00:02:24,743
or something like that,

60
00:02:24,743 --> 00:02:25,576
we are not gonna cover that.

61
00:02:25,576 --> 00:02:26,540
If you have questions

62
00:02:26,540 --> 00:02:29,340
about that probably the best resource

63
00:02:29,340 --> 00:02:33,810
is the Montana Fair
Housing, that's in Butte.

64
00:02:33,810 --> 00:02:37,100
Their number is readily
available on the web

65
00:02:37,100 --> 00:02:39,340
and Pam Bean runs that program

66
00:02:39,340 --> 00:02:41,040
and knows that stuff
backwards and forwards.

67
00:02:41,040 --> 00:02:43,450
It's too complex for what we'll do here.

68
00:02:43,450 --> 00:02:45,460
So what we'll cover today is Residential,

69
00:02:45,460 --> 00:02:48,130
Landlord and Tenant Law and it is purely

70
00:02:48,130 --> 00:02:50,420
residential stuff.

71
00:02:50,420 --> 00:02:54,390
In Montana only I'll give you maybe one

72
00:02:54,390 --> 00:02:56,084
Federal Case but no other State Law

73
00:02:56,084 --> 00:02:59,330
and nothing in Federal
Housing Law specifically

74
00:02:59,330 --> 00:03:01,050
so, and nothing in Federal Court

75
00:03:01,050 --> 00:03:02,690
except the one case.

76
00:03:02,690 --> 00:03:04,430
So let's talk a little bit

77
00:03:04,430 --> 00:03:06,420
about the purpose of the MRLTA.

78
00:03:06,420 --> 00:03:07,590
What's it for?

79
00:03:07,590 --> 00:03:09,780
It's an understanding that the parties,

80
00:03:09,780 --> 00:03:11,350
and a recognition that the parties

81
00:03:11,350 --> 00:03:12,810
need each other, okay?

82
00:03:12,810 --> 00:03:13,777
You can't have landlords without tenants,

83
00:03:13,777 --> 00:03:15,610
you can't have tenants without landlords,

84
00:03:15,610 --> 00:03:16,910
that's just so obvious.

85
00:03:16,910 --> 00:03:19,100
And it seems to me some parties,

86
00:03:19,100 --> 00:03:20,493
both landlords and tenants,

87
00:03:21,520 --> 00:03:22,650
seem to ignore that.

88
00:03:22,650 --> 00:03:24,910
Incidentally my folks were landlords

89
00:03:24,910 --> 00:03:27,250
and sometimes landlords accuse

90
00:03:27,250 --> 00:03:29,200
me of being biased in favor of tenants,

91
00:03:29,200 --> 00:03:30,033
I don't think so,

92
00:03:30,033 --> 00:03:31,819
I helped my parents manage their property

93
00:03:31,819 --> 00:03:34,810
for years and I am appalled
at some of the things

94
00:03:34,810 --> 00:03:37,260
Montana landlords do to their tenants.

95
00:03:37,260 --> 00:03:38,480
And it's that injustice

96
00:03:38,480 --> 00:03:40,380
that keeps me doing this stuff.

97
00:03:40,380 --> 00:03:45,260
So, the MRLTA establishes the contractual

98
00:03:45,260 --> 00:03:47,763
and legal relationship
between the parties.

99
00:03:49,250 --> 00:03:50,590
Sometimes you'll see some of these

100
00:03:50,590 --> 00:03:52,230
rental agreements come across your desk

101
00:03:52,230 --> 00:03:53,500
and they seem to be getting longer

102
00:03:53,500 --> 00:03:57,100
with smaller type that has everything

103
00:03:57,100 --> 00:03:59,790
in it but the kitchen sink and even more.

104
00:03:59,790 --> 00:04:00,730
You don't need that.

105
00:04:00,730 --> 00:04:02,807
Most of the stuff is covered by the MRLTA

106
00:04:02,807 --> 00:04:05,132
and why would you quote a statute

107
00:04:05,132 --> 00:04:06,680
in a rental agreement?

108
00:04:06,680 --> 00:04:08,250
Sometimes it just doesn't make sense

109
00:04:08,250 --> 00:04:11,560
to me but because the MRLTA covers it.

110
00:04:11,560 --> 00:04:13,500
It avoids the physical controversies,

111
00:04:13,500 --> 00:04:14,840
hopefully between the parties.

112
00:04:14,840 --> 00:04:17,860
When I was negotiating on the bill

113
00:04:17,860 --> 00:04:21,410
itself back in 1974 I suspect,

114
00:04:21,410 --> 00:04:22,860
maybe even earlier,

115
00:04:22,860 --> 00:04:24,160
we were in Billings one time

116
00:04:24,160 --> 00:04:25,560
and after a long session,

117
00:04:25,560 --> 00:04:27,122
maybe four hours long,

118
00:04:27,122 --> 00:04:29,230
getting nowhere at the
end of a long table,

119
00:04:29,230 --> 00:04:31,890
18, 20 people there, I was by that time

120
00:04:31,890 --> 00:04:34,470
I think one of only two
tenants representatives

121
00:04:34,470 --> 00:04:37,092
left on the panel and
one of the landlord's

122
00:04:37,092 --> 00:04:40,590
got up and she slammed
her fist on the table

123
00:04:40,590 --> 00:04:41,750
and said, the only way to handle

124
00:04:41,750 --> 00:04:43,220
a landlord tenant situation

125
00:04:43,220 --> 00:04:44,840
is at the other end of a shotgun,

126
00:04:44,840 --> 00:04:46,040
and then she walked out.

127
00:04:47,060 --> 00:04:49,550
It's that what we want to avoid

128
00:04:49,550 --> 00:04:51,780
and we got a lot done after she left

129
00:04:51,780 --> 00:04:55,830
actually and for the most part it works.

130
00:04:55,830 --> 00:04:57,610
And it applies to reasonable people.

131
00:04:57,610 --> 00:04:59,310
I also trained the JP Judges

132
00:04:59,310 --> 00:05:03,119
on Landlord Tenant Law and they asked me,

133
00:05:03,119 --> 00:05:05,810
why does it always say

134
00:05:05,810 --> 00:05:07,730
reasonably this and reasonably that?

135
00:05:07,730 --> 00:05:10,660
Well it's because you don't make laws

136
00:05:10,660 --> 00:05:12,580
based on unreasonableness,

137
00:05:12,580 --> 00:05:14,430
except Criminal Law, we do that.

138
00:05:14,430 --> 00:05:15,850
We say, there are some things

139
00:05:15,850 --> 00:05:18,330
you simply cannot do
because it's unreasonable,

140
00:05:18,330 --> 00:05:20,270
essentially it's against the law.

141
00:05:20,270 --> 00:05:23,970
But most of the stuff
under the MRLTA is simply

142
00:05:23,970 --> 00:05:26,200
dealt with by being reasonable.

143
00:05:26,200 --> 00:05:28,850
So, that's why it applies
to reasonable people.

144
00:05:28,850 --> 00:05:30,650
The JP's are quick to remind me

145
00:05:30,650 --> 00:05:32,105
it's the unreasonable people

146
00:05:32,105 --> 00:05:33,740
that end up in court most of the time

147
00:05:33,740 --> 00:05:36,730
and that seems to be true, unfortunately.

148
00:05:36,730 --> 00:05:40,503
So, what kind of law is it, okay?

149
00:05:41,910 --> 00:05:43,240
You're in your third year,

150
00:05:43,240 --> 00:05:46,410
yeah, you kinda have some
idea of where laws are.

151
00:05:46,410 --> 00:05:47,500
Is it Property Law?

152
00:05:47,500 --> 00:05:48,510
Did you have some landlord

153
00:05:48,510 --> 00:05:49,700
tenant stuff in Property Law?

154
00:05:49,700 --> 00:05:50,810
Uh huh.

155
00:05:50,810 --> 00:05:52,420
What, one day maybe?

156
00:05:52,420 --> 00:05:55,240
No, we did leases, evictions, warranties.

157
00:05:55,240 --> 00:05:57,130
Oh, you did, okay.

158
00:05:57,130 --> 00:05:58,900
Interestingly enough the word eviction

159
00:05:58,900 --> 00:06:00,773
does not appear in the MRLTA.

160
00:06:01,630 --> 00:06:03,900
So, we'll cover that in a minute.

161
00:06:03,900 --> 00:06:05,510
But is it Property Law?

162
00:06:05,510 --> 00:06:06,660
Did they teach you anything

163
00:06:06,660 --> 00:06:09,517
about enfeoffment with livery of seisin?

164
00:06:10,820 --> 00:06:12,830
No, huh, that's the kind,

165
00:06:12,830 --> 00:06:15,520
of course our laws come
from the common law

166
00:06:15,520 --> 00:06:17,770
of England and the way they transferred

167
00:06:17,770 --> 00:06:19,890
property back in the Middle Ages

168
00:06:19,890 --> 00:06:23,670
when Common Law started
to become more popular,

169
00:06:23,670 --> 00:06:27,470
I guess you could call
it, is by enfeoffment.

170
00:06:27,470 --> 00:06:29,330
And usually it meant that I would take

171
00:06:29,330 --> 00:06:31,670
my first borns, if I was the landowner,

172
00:06:31,670 --> 00:06:33,100
I would take my first born son,

173
00:06:33,100 --> 00:06:35,930
sorry ladies women couldn't inherit,

174
00:06:35,930 --> 00:06:37,790
I would walk in leaps and bounds

175
00:06:37,790 --> 00:06:39,120
to the end of the property,

176
00:06:39,120 --> 00:06:41,810
I'd put my arm around my 12 year old son

177
00:06:41,810 --> 00:06:42,820
at that point and I'd say,

178
00:06:42,820 --> 00:06:45,760
son someday this will all be yours,

179
00:06:45,760 --> 00:06:47,470
and he looks at me and he thinks,

180
00:06:47,470 --> 00:06:49,580
oh yeah Dad who cares, I'm 12 years old,

181
00:06:49,580 --> 00:06:52,440
well that's the enfeoffment part.

182
00:06:52,440 --> 00:06:54,240
Then the livery of seisin is I pick

183
00:06:54,240 --> 00:06:57,070
a clod of dirt up and
I throw it in his face

184
00:06:57,070 --> 00:06:59,520
and then when he's 21
and he comes out here

185
00:06:59,520 --> 00:07:02,070
and he goes, oh yeah, this is where Dad

186
00:07:02,070 --> 00:07:03,693
threw the dirt in my face.

187
00:07:04,820 --> 00:07:06,560
All property was transferred that way

188
00:07:06,560 --> 00:07:08,130
including rental property,

189
00:07:08,130 --> 00:07:10,120
thank goodness we don't do that anymore,

190
00:07:10,120 --> 00:07:13,400
so it's really not Property Law either.

191
00:07:13,400 --> 00:07:15,090
Is it Contract Law?

192
00:07:15,090 --> 00:07:17,010
Can I put anything I want in a contract

193
00:07:17,010 --> 00:07:18,570
between a landlord and a tenant?

194
00:07:18,570 --> 00:07:19,403
What do you think?

195
00:07:19,403 --> 00:07:20,640
-Probably not.
-No.

196
00:07:20,640 --> 00:07:24,590
So, we have abolished,
at least in the MRLTA,

197
00:07:24,590 --> 00:07:29,590
the right to contract about anything,

198
00:07:29,810 --> 00:07:31,080
the freedom of contract,

199
00:07:31,080 --> 00:07:32,190
if you want to call it that.

200
00:07:32,190 --> 00:07:34,070
We don't do that because there are limits

201
00:07:34,070 --> 00:07:36,830
to what you can contract for and against.

202
00:07:36,830 --> 00:07:38,840
So, it's not really Contract Law.

203
00:07:38,840 --> 00:07:41,397
I like to think of it most as Consumer Law

204
00:07:41,397 --> 00:07:43,290
and it really seems to fit there best.

205
00:07:43,290 --> 00:07:46,310
You'll find there are
few places in the MRLTA

206
00:07:47,230 --> 00:07:50,480
where it says, if there is a defect

207
00:07:50,480 --> 00:07:54,000
the person affected,
that knows of the defect,

208
00:07:54,000 --> 00:07:56,940
has to give the person, the other party,

209
00:07:56,940 --> 00:07:59,050
the opportunity to correct the defect

210
00:07:59,050 --> 00:08:00,870
first before any rights ensue.

211
00:08:00,870 --> 00:08:04,600
So, that would be like
a Lemon Law for a car.

212
00:08:04,600 --> 00:08:06,998
If my car goes bad and I just bought it

213
00:08:06,998 --> 00:08:09,270
and it isn't working properly

214
00:08:09,270 --> 00:08:11,780
I can't just say, here take it back.

215
00:08:11,780 --> 00:08:13,240
I might be able to do that eventually

216
00:08:13,240 --> 00:08:16,830
but my first requirement
under most Lemon Laws

217
00:08:16,830 --> 00:08:18,870
is to take it back to the dealer and say,

218
00:08:18,870 --> 00:08:21,930
this doesn't work, make it work, fix it.

219
00:08:21,930 --> 00:08:23,917
Okay, first opportunity
to correct the defect.

220
00:08:23,917 --> 00:08:25,430
And there are plenty of things

221
00:08:25,430 --> 00:08:28,450
similar to that in the MRLTA.

222
00:08:28,450 --> 00:08:31,970
So I like to think of it as Consumer Law.

223
00:08:31,970 --> 00:08:34,000
So, sources of Montana Law.

224
00:08:34,000 --> 00:08:36,550
We're gonna talk mostly about 70-24-101

225
00:08:36,550 --> 00:08:39,470
and following up to 422.

226
00:08:39,470 --> 00:08:41,100
That is the MRLTA.

227
00:08:41,100 --> 00:08:44,100
It was based on the URLTA

228
00:08:44,100 --> 00:08:47,050
when it was first introduced
at the legislature

229
00:08:47,050 --> 00:08:48,440
and it was introduced and now we meet

230
00:08:48,440 --> 00:08:50,520
every two years at the legislature here.

231
00:08:50,520 --> 00:08:52,650
It was introduced seven times

232
00:08:52,650 --> 00:08:54,280
before it got amended to death.

233
00:08:54,280 --> 00:08:58,810
It passed in '77, in '75 it was amended

234
00:08:58,810 --> 00:09:01,300
some 300 and some odd times before

235
00:09:01,300 --> 00:09:03,880
the legislature basically said we give up,

236
00:09:03,880 --> 00:09:05,350
we don't want to do that.

237
00:09:05,350 --> 00:09:08,820
At the same time however, well anyways,

238
00:09:08,820 --> 00:09:11,370
and I was on one of those committees,

239
00:09:11,370 --> 00:09:13,160
not as a legislator, as a lobbyist

240
00:09:13,160 --> 00:09:15,340
for Montana Legal Services representing

241
00:09:15,340 --> 00:09:17,550
low income folks at that time,

242
00:09:17,550 --> 00:09:19,530
and was one of three maybe four

243
00:09:19,530 --> 00:09:21,870
tenants representatives when we started.

244
00:09:21,870 --> 00:09:22,830
By the time we finished

245
00:09:22,830 --> 00:09:24,430
I was the only tenants representative

246
00:09:24,430 --> 00:09:27,183
to gather there and the last,

247
00:09:29,506 --> 00:09:31,819
actually I'm the last surviving member

248
00:09:31,819 --> 00:09:33,750
of all the people that worked on that.

249
00:09:33,750 --> 00:09:36,650
Senator Bishop in Billings is still around

250
00:09:36,650 --> 00:09:39,550
but he's well into his nineties

251
00:09:39,550 --> 00:09:40,960
and doesn't spend a whole lot of time

252
00:09:40,960 --> 00:09:42,513
on Landlord Tenant Law.

253
00:09:43,370 --> 00:09:46,210
If you read that cover
to cover essentially,

254
00:09:46,210 --> 00:09:47,630
you know it doesn't have a cover,

255
00:09:47,630 --> 00:09:50,130
you would get about 80% of the law

256
00:09:50,130 --> 00:09:54,390
you need to know for
landlord tenant experience,

257
00:09:54,390 --> 00:09:55,907
to know what you need to know.

258
00:09:55,907 --> 00:09:59,313
All right, so it's a good part to read.

259
00:10:00,540 --> 00:10:03,580
Then there is Section
70-25-101 and following,

260
00:10:03,580 --> 00:10:05,390
that's the Security Deposit Act.

261
00:10:05,390 --> 00:10:07,630
It's called the Montana Residential

262
00:10:07,630 --> 00:10:09,060
Tenant Security Deposit Act.

263
00:10:09,060 --> 00:10:12,640
Notice it's called the
Tenant Security Deposit Act,

264
00:10:12,640 --> 00:10:14,950
not the Security Deposit Act,

265
00:10:14,950 --> 00:10:17,000
it's the Tenant Security Deposit Act.

266
00:10:17,000 --> 00:10:19,260
Landlord's sometimes lose the sight

267
00:10:19,260 --> 00:10:23,040
of the fact that it is a
tenants security deposit.

268
00:10:23,040 --> 00:10:24,500
This section was actually part

269
00:10:24,500 --> 00:10:28,220
of the MRLTA in 1977, in '75 rather,

270
00:10:30,137 --> 00:10:33,090
when the MRLTA was introduced

271
00:10:35,065 --> 00:10:38,580
and it was carved out when it looked

272
00:10:38,580 --> 00:10:42,110
like the MRLTA was not going to pass

273
00:10:42,110 --> 00:10:45,303
that particular year so it's actually,

274
00:10:46,750 --> 00:10:48,690
it's birth mother, so to speak,

275
00:10:48,690 --> 00:10:51,750
is the MRLTA but it is now,

276
00:10:51,750 --> 00:10:53,380
it is a separate section.

277
00:10:53,380 --> 00:10:55,360
You'll find many other states

278
00:10:55,360 --> 00:10:57,350
pass them all together.

279
00:10:57,350 --> 00:10:58,950
And there you would get another,

280
00:10:58,950 --> 00:11:00,170
what do I have there, 5%?

281
00:11:00,170 --> 00:11:01,120
Can't read the red.

282
00:11:01,960 --> 00:11:05,660
Then there is 70-33-101 and following.

283
00:11:05,660 --> 00:11:06,980
Probably about, I'm thinking it was

284
00:11:06,980 --> 00:11:09,480
about a mid 90's, early 90's,

285
00:11:09,480 --> 00:11:13,570
there was some talk
about rental agreements

286
00:11:13,570 --> 00:11:15,170
that involve mobile homes

287
00:11:15,170 --> 00:11:17,970
that were different than regular housing,

288
00:11:17,970 --> 00:11:19,740
apartments and houses and so on.

289
00:11:19,740 --> 00:11:23,080
And so 70-33-101 and following

290
00:11:23,080 --> 00:11:25,510
was anything that pertained

291
00:11:25,510 --> 00:11:29,860
to a mobile home rental of the lot,

292
00:11:29,860 --> 00:11:31,740
of the lot, people owned the motor home

293
00:11:31,740 --> 00:11:33,680
but are just renting the lot,

294
00:11:33,680 --> 00:11:36,725
that's in Chapter 33 of Title 70.

295
00:11:36,725 --> 00:11:39,090
And so all of that stuff was carved out

296
00:11:39,090 --> 00:11:41,160
and it's basically a copy,

297
00:11:41,160 --> 00:11:43,010
there's a few exceptions, we'll see

298
00:11:43,010 --> 00:11:44,780
if we have time to cover those exceptions.

299
00:11:44,780 --> 00:11:46,797
If you read that you'd get another 10%

300
00:11:46,797 --> 00:11:49,130
and so far we've got 95%

301
00:11:49,130 --> 00:11:49,980
of what you'd need to know

302
00:11:49,980 --> 00:11:51,280
about Landlord Tenant Law.

303
00:11:52,290 --> 00:11:54,040
I want to have you look at,

304
00:11:54,040 --> 00:11:57,493
and I think Jordan printed
out the code sections.

305
00:11:58,670 --> 00:12:00,260
Did you Jordan?

306
00:12:00,260 --> 00:12:02,254
The excerpts of the law?

307
00:12:02,254 --> 00:12:03,904
You know I only have one of those.

308
00:12:03,904 --> 00:12:05,990
Okay, nevermind, I'll
just tell you about it.

309
00:12:05,990 --> 00:12:09,690
70-27-101 and following are the remnants

310
00:12:09,690 --> 00:12:12,117
of the old Montana Landlord Tenant Law

311
00:12:12,117 --> 00:12:14,810
and it talks about unlawful detainer

312
00:12:14,810 --> 00:12:17,380
or what we used to call
back in the old days,

313
00:12:17,380 --> 00:12:20,690
prior to 1977, summary eviction

314
00:12:20,690 --> 00:12:22,880
where I could post A Notice of Termination

315
00:12:22,880 --> 00:12:26,650
on someone's door and
terminate a rental agreement,

316
00:12:26,650 --> 00:12:28,963
you can't do that anymore that way.

317
00:12:29,970 --> 00:12:32,630
But I get these things, or used to when

318
00:12:32,630 --> 00:12:34,250
I was at Montana Legal Services,

319
00:12:34,250 --> 00:12:36,210
used to get Unlawful Detainer cases

320
00:12:36,210 --> 00:12:37,750
all over the state all of the time.

321
00:12:37,750 --> 00:12:41,970
And 70-27-101 and following
says quite clearly,

322
00:12:41,970 --> 00:12:43,670
this portion of the act,

323
00:12:43,670 --> 00:12:46,000
or this portion of the law, doesn't apply

324
00:12:46,000 --> 00:12:49,250
to anything covered by Chapter 24.

325
00:12:49,250 --> 00:12:52,120
So, what's covered by Chapter 24?

326
00:12:52,120 --> 00:12:54,060
All landlord tenant relationships

327
00:12:54,060 --> 00:12:55,700
that deal with residential tenancies.

328
00:12:55,700 --> 00:12:57,310
So, when a lawyer files

329
00:12:57,310 --> 00:13:00,730
an Unlawful Detainer Action in Fairfield,

330
00:13:00,730 --> 00:13:02,440
it's not gonna cut mustard.

331
00:13:02,440 --> 00:13:04,610
You can't do that unless it applies

332
00:13:04,610 --> 00:13:07,440
to commercial tenancies, for example.

333
00:13:07,440 --> 00:13:08,520
And then of course there's

334
00:13:08,520 --> 00:13:10,230
the Montana Supreme Court Cases.

335
00:13:10,230 --> 00:13:12,290
In your excerpts thing

336
00:13:12,290 --> 00:13:13,940
that you'll have electronically,

337
00:13:13,940 --> 00:13:16,050
I think I sent that electronically to ya,

338
00:13:16,050 --> 00:13:17,180
you'll see a list of all

339
00:13:17,180 --> 00:13:18,650
of the Montana Supreme Court cases

340
00:13:18,650 --> 00:13:21,270
that I consider to be important

341
00:13:21,270 --> 00:13:23,340
for any understanding

342
00:13:23,340 --> 00:13:24,613
of Montana Landlord Tenant Law.

343
00:13:24,613 --> 00:13:27,340
There are a lot more but only those prior

344
00:13:27,340 --> 00:13:30,290
to '77 that I think have some relevance

345
00:13:30,290 --> 00:13:34,330
and only those that have some significance

346
00:13:34,330 --> 00:13:36,720
for you after '77 are on that list

347
00:13:36,720 --> 00:13:37,553
but amazingly enough I think

348
00:13:37,553 --> 00:13:39,800
there's only 33 cases.

349
00:13:39,800 --> 00:13:41,120
You know really, that's not bad.

350
00:13:41,120 --> 00:13:42,617
You could go to the Law School Library

351
00:13:42,617 --> 00:13:46,600
and spend maybe a day

352
00:13:46,600 --> 00:13:48,650
reading all of those
cases and you would know

353
00:13:48,650 --> 00:13:50,420
more about that than most judges do,

354
00:13:50,420 --> 00:13:52,640
so that's an important factor

355
00:13:52,640 --> 00:13:54,356
to have on all those cases.

356
00:13:54,356 --> 00:13:58,800
And there you'd have, but the reality is

357
00:13:58,800 --> 00:14:00,540
we're gonna have this
hour and a half or so

358
00:14:00,540 --> 00:14:03,720
to spend time on the MRLTA but it isn't

359
00:14:03,720 --> 00:14:05,550
gonna cover everything you'd need to know,

360
00:14:05,550 --> 00:14:07,160
in fact there's so much information

361
00:14:07,160 --> 00:14:09,840
out there you could write a book about it.

362
00:14:09,840 --> 00:14:12,313
-So I did.
-(laughing)

363
00:14:13,640 --> 00:14:15,320
And I'll pass it around.

364
00:14:15,320 --> 00:14:18,270
We have a copy in the office

365
00:14:18,270 --> 00:14:19,990
and it's in the Library,

366
00:14:19,990 --> 00:14:21,640
it's in the Law School Library,

367
00:14:21,640 --> 00:14:24,160
it's in the Mansfield Library here.

368
00:14:24,160 --> 00:14:26,620
It's all over the place and I'll just,

369
00:14:26,620 --> 00:14:28,160
this is an older edition.

370
00:14:28,160 --> 00:14:29,420
You can take a look at it.

371
00:14:29,420 --> 00:14:31,450
So if I'm not around and you can't

372
00:14:31,450 --> 00:14:33,950
ask me or Annie or Jeff

373
00:14:33,950 --> 00:14:34,970
take a look in the book.

374
00:14:34,970 --> 00:14:37,506
Chapter Four particularly has all

375
00:14:37,506 --> 00:14:40,730
of the examples I've gathered from judges

376
00:14:40,730 --> 00:14:44,300
and cases over the past 40 years in there.

377
00:14:44,300 --> 00:14:45,692
So, in a question and answer

378
00:14:45,692 --> 00:14:49,103
and sort of annotated
form for all of the case,

379
00:14:49,990 --> 00:14:50,823
the sections of the code.

380
00:14:50,823 --> 00:14:53,580
So I think you'll find that helpful.

381
00:14:53,580 --> 00:14:54,657
So, there it is, yes?

382
00:14:54,657 --> 00:14:57,460
Can you really read 33 cases in day?

383
00:14:57,460 --> 00:14:59,320
Yeah, yeah.

384
00:14:59,320 --> 00:15:01,260
Yeah, yeah, especially these.

385
00:15:01,260 --> 00:15:02,660
Some of them are kind of fun reading.

386
00:15:02,660 --> 00:15:04,460
We're gonna go through some of them.

387
00:15:06,060 --> 00:15:10,650
Okay, so what when and
where does the MRLTA apply?

388
00:15:10,650 --> 00:15:12,960
Well let's just confirm
again that it applies

389
00:15:12,960 --> 00:15:15,450
to all relationships between residential

390
00:15:15,450 --> 00:15:18,390
landlords and tenants,
you can't exempt yourself.

391
00:15:18,390 --> 00:15:20,370
And there was a, you know it kind of comes

392
00:15:20,370 --> 00:15:22,569
in waves, it seems like every 10 years

393
00:15:22,569 --> 00:15:25,580
you get some people that'll say,

394
00:15:25,580 --> 00:15:27,210
now that's just between us, right?

395
00:15:27,210 --> 00:15:28,600
We'll just do it this way

396
00:15:28,600 --> 00:15:31,840
and you'll give me a security deposit

397
00:15:31,840 --> 00:15:33,340
but I won't take that in writing.

398
00:15:33,340 --> 00:15:35,210
We don't need to do that do we?

399
00:15:35,210 --> 00:15:37,360
Yeah, you do and there are some things

400
00:15:37,360 --> 00:15:38,730
that you can't get out of

401
00:15:38,730 --> 00:15:40,730
and even if you don't put it in writing

402
00:15:40,730 --> 00:15:43,030
the MRLTA still applies.

403
00:15:43,030 --> 00:15:47,590
We find that probably
about 60% of the rental

404
00:15:47,590 --> 00:15:50,060
agreements in this
state are now in writing

405
00:15:50,060 --> 00:15:53,140
but there's, that still
leaves 40% that are just

406
00:15:53,140 --> 00:15:54,670
rental agreements month to month

407
00:15:54,670 --> 00:15:56,230
that don't have anything in writing,

408
00:15:56,230 --> 00:15:57,780
still applies, okay?

409
00:15:57,780 --> 00:15:59,770
And even if you had something in writing

410
00:15:59,770 --> 00:16:02,030
and it said the MRLTA doesn't apply

411
00:16:02,030 --> 00:16:04,130
to our situation it still does.

412
00:16:04,130 --> 00:16:05,830
There are some situations

413
00:16:05,830 --> 00:16:09,410
where it is by law not applicable.

414
00:16:09,410 --> 00:16:12,520
If I have a rental, if
you can call it that,

415
00:16:12,520 --> 00:16:16,210
of a hunting cabin, that's
specifically exempt.

416
00:16:16,210 --> 00:16:18,220
Believe or not, married student housing.

417
00:16:18,220 --> 00:16:19,760
All of Elliot Village and so on

418
00:16:19,760 --> 00:16:21,470
is not covered by the MRLTA,

419
00:16:21,470 --> 00:16:22,420
of course the dorms aren't.

420
00:16:22,420 --> 00:16:26,433
And Poverello here in
Missoula isn't covered.

421
00:16:28,120 --> 00:16:29,610
Nursing homes aren't covered.

422
00:16:29,610 --> 00:16:30,810
Those kind of things, even though

423
00:16:30,810 --> 00:16:32,967
some people pay month to month and so on.

424
00:16:32,967 --> 00:16:34,540
But almost anything else,

425
00:16:34,540 --> 00:16:36,530
if it looks and smells like a landlord

426
00:16:36,530 --> 00:16:38,243
tenant situation it's going to be called

427
00:16:38,243 --> 00:16:41,260
and covered by the MRLTA.

428
00:16:41,260 --> 00:16:43,460
So what are the highlights of the MRLTA?

429
00:16:43,460 --> 00:16:45,900
Well one thing, again,

430
00:16:45,900 --> 00:16:48,590
landlords seem to lose
sight of, is the fact

431
00:16:48,590 --> 00:16:50,807
that all of the actions

432
00:16:50,807 --> 00:16:54,480
that are in the MRLTA are
governed by good faith.

433
00:16:54,480 --> 00:16:59,480
And to me, the definition is,

434
00:16:59,480 --> 00:17:03,800
good faith means honesty
in fact in the conduct

435
00:17:03,800 --> 00:17:06,540
of the transaction incurred.

436
00:17:06,540 --> 00:17:10,090
Honesty in fact in the conduct

437
00:17:10,090 --> 00:17:13,120
of the transaction incurred.

438
00:17:13,120 --> 00:17:15,130
So what does that mean?

439
00:17:15,130 --> 00:17:16,450
You can say it a hundred times,

440
00:17:16,450 --> 00:17:18,020
it doesn't get any clarity.

441
00:17:18,020 --> 00:17:19,840
It's like sort of the definition

442
00:17:19,840 --> 00:17:22,120
of truth is in truth kind of thing

443
00:17:22,120 --> 00:17:24,180
that's been going around lately.

444
00:17:24,180 --> 00:17:25,870
I'll give you a better example.

445
00:17:25,870 --> 00:17:27,420
Linda Landlord and Terry Tenant

446
00:17:27,420 --> 00:17:29,580
aren't getting along lately

447
00:17:29,580 --> 00:17:31,470
although Terry doesn't seem to know

448
00:17:31,470 --> 00:17:34,150
that but Linda doesn't
care for what he's doing,

449
00:17:34,150 --> 00:17:36,930
whatever it is and so she
goes up to him one day

450
00:17:36,930 --> 00:17:39,510
and says, Terry, you've been here

451
00:17:39,510 --> 00:17:41,550
about a year and a half and I think

452
00:17:41,550 --> 00:17:43,160
it's time for you to find a new place

453
00:17:43,160 --> 00:17:45,380
so here's your 30 day
notice and she just tells

454
00:17:45,380 --> 00:17:47,460
him she wants him out in 30 days.

455
00:17:47,460 --> 00:17:50,810
Well the deadline passes
and he's still there.

456
00:17:50,810 --> 00:17:53,330
Okay, he doesn't take any action

457
00:17:53,330 --> 00:17:54,750
toward moving out at all

458
00:17:54,750 --> 00:17:56,680
and she's a little bit intimidated

459
00:17:56,680 --> 00:17:59,220
by his size and bulk so she decides

460
00:17:59,220 --> 00:18:01,510
just to file an Action for Possession,

461
00:18:01,510 --> 00:18:03,650
that's the word of art in court

462
00:18:03,650 --> 00:18:05,300
to get her property back

463
00:18:05,300 --> 00:18:07,500
for failure to move out on time.

464
00:18:07,500 --> 00:18:10,080
They go to court and Linda explains

465
00:18:10,080 --> 00:18:11,600
to the judge her side of the case

466
00:18:11,600 --> 00:18:14,290
then the judge turns to Terry and says,

467
00:18:14,290 --> 00:18:16,609
well Terry, how come
you're still in there?

468
00:18:16,609 --> 00:18:18,970
You're still there, right?

469
00:18:18,970 --> 00:18:19,803
And he says, yeah.

470
00:18:19,803 --> 00:18:21,300
Well, why is that?

471
00:18:21,300 --> 00:18:23,580
Well, he says, you didn't

472
00:18:23,580 --> 00:18:25,680
give me notice in writing.

473
00:18:25,680 --> 00:18:29,050
Okay, all right, a termination

474
00:18:29,050 --> 00:18:31,100
of a rental agreement should be in writing

475
00:18:31,100 --> 00:18:33,950
says the code but he
had actual notice of it

476
00:18:33,950 --> 00:18:36,690
so it's probably not good faith

477
00:18:36,690 --> 00:18:39,260
for him to go into court and claim

478
00:18:39,260 --> 00:18:41,090
that he didn't have notice.

479
00:18:41,090 --> 00:18:42,383
So that's not gonna work.

480
00:18:43,640 --> 00:18:48,630
So, there are prohibitive
provisions in the act.

481
00:18:48,630 --> 00:18:50,363
Things that cannot be included,

482
00:18:52,001 --> 00:18:53,751
for example, what if I put in there

483
00:18:55,180 --> 00:18:57,170
that if you decide to have goldfish

484
00:18:57,170 --> 00:18:59,713
I can give you a 24
hour notice to get out?

485
00:19:01,630 --> 00:19:04,009
I just have a pet peeve against goldfish

486
00:19:04,009 --> 00:19:07,313
or aquariums or something,
can you do that?

487
00:19:08,770 --> 00:19:10,223
24 hours notice to get out?

488
00:19:11,970 --> 00:19:13,510
No, no you can't, no.

489
00:19:13,510 --> 00:19:15,740
So, and there are consequences for that.

490
00:19:15,740 --> 00:19:18,940
If you include improper provisions

491
00:19:18,940 --> 00:19:21,760
such as what happened in,

492
00:19:21,760 --> 00:19:23,791
Jordan has printed out for you a case

493
00:19:23,791 --> 00:19:25,360
that was in District Court,

494
00:19:25,360 --> 00:19:30,360
not the Supreme Court
yet, it might get there.

495
00:19:30,620 --> 00:19:35,620
A case in which a tenant
had fees for, Jordan,

496
00:19:37,741 --> 00:19:41,030
I don't have the case in front of me here.

497
00:19:45,893 --> 00:19:47,513
Ah, all right, thanks.

498
00:19:48,770 --> 00:19:50,340
Like failing to mow the grass,

499
00:19:50,340 --> 00:19:54,570
letting a Renter Insurance Policy lapse,

500
00:19:54,570 --> 00:19:57,690
so on would be grounds for eviction.

501
00:19:57,690 --> 00:20:00,240
The District Court Judge
Leslie Halligan said,

502
00:20:00,240 --> 00:20:03,870
under those circumstances,
no, you can do that.

503
00:20:03,870 --> 00:20:07,770
That's well beyond what's
expected in the MRLTA.

504
00:20:07,770 --> 00:20:10,970
She found those to be improper

505
00:20:10,970 --> 00:20:13,120
and I haven't had a chance to talk

506
00:20:13,120 --> 00:20:15,170
to the attorney that was
representing the tenant

507
00:20:15,170 --> 00:20:17,960
in that case but it's
possible that if the tenant

508
00:20:17,960 --> 00:20:20,520
won there could also be
some of the consequences

509
00:20:20,520 --> 00:20:23,360
of an improper inclusion would include

510
00:20:23,360 --> 00:20:24,950
that's it's unenforceable.

511
00:20:24,950 --> 00:20:25,930
The judge just simply says,

512
00:20:25,930 --> 00:20:27,090
you can't enforce that.

513
00:20:27,090 --> 00:20:29,590
Or that attorney's fees may apply

514
00:20:29,590 --> 00:20:31,180
and that's, we talked
a little bit yesterday

515
00:20:31,180 --> 00:20:34,580
about even we at ASUM Legal Services

516
00:20:34,580 --> 00:20:37,540
are entitled to get
attorney's fees if we win.

517
00:20:37,540 --> 00:20:39,326
The classic case that went all the way

518
00:20:39,326 --> 00:20:41,990
to the Supreme Court is
Summers versus Crestview

519
00:20:41,990 --> 00:20:45,150
and I'll boil that case
for ya very very simply.

520
00:20:45,150 --> 00:20:48,600
Let's assume rent, for
the sake of argument,

521
00:20:48,600 --> 00:20:49,960
was 1,000 a month, okay?

522
00:20:49,960 --> 00:20:52,030
So 12,000 in a year.

523
00:20:52,030 --> 00:20:53,906
During the second month of this,

524
00:20:53,906 --> 00:20:56,330
again very simply, second month

525
00:20:56,330 --> 00:20:58,160
the tenant goes to the landlord and says,

526
00:20:58,160 --> 00:20:59,180
I want to move out,

527
00:20:59,180 --> 00:21:01,660
we want to break our lease early.

528
00:21:01,660 --> 00:21:02,770
What do we do to do that?

529
00:21:02,770 --> 00:21:04,470
Then the landlord says, you can't.

530
00:21:05,510 --> 00:21:06,950
What do you mean, we just,

531
00:21:06,950 --> 00:21:09,760
we're making a down
payment on a real house

532
00:21:09,760 --> 00:21:11,700
that's ours, we want to move out.

533
00:21:11,700 --> 00:21:13,360
I'm sorry, you can't do that.

534
00:21:13,360 --> 00:21:15,440
Well of course you can.

535
00:21:15,440 --> 00:21:16,730
They're going to leave.

536
00:21:16,730 --> 00:21:18,110
So the landlord says,

537
00:21:18,110 --> 00:21:20,890
and if you do that not only will you owe

538
00:21:20,890 --> 00:21:23,010
us for the remaining amount of the lease

539
00:21:23,010 --> 00:21:24,010
we're gonna send that over

540
00:21:24,010 --> 00:21:26,190
to a Collection Agency right away.

541
00:21:26,190 --> 00:21:28,113
And there's some other
provisions in the code,

542
00:21:28,113 --> 00:21:30,670
in the contract rather,
in the lease that say,

543
00:21:30,670 --> 00:21:31,890
not only can they send it over

544
00:21:31,890 --> 00:21:33,270
to the Collection Agency

545
00:21:33,270 --> 00:21:34,830
but the Collections Agency can add

546
00:21:34,830 --> 00:21:36,400
it's own fees to that.

547
00:21:36,400 --> 00:21:40,240
So suddenly they're
responsible for $10,000,

548
00:21:40,240 --> 00:21:41,600
the remaining amount,

549
00:21:41,600 --> 00:21:45,550
the collection company adds another half

550
00:21:45,550 --> 00:21:48,900
of that, $15,000 and some other additional

551
00:21:48,900 --> 00:21:53,020
dollars, amounts all the way up to $20,000

552
00:21:53,020 --> 00:21:56,497
for breaking a lease early, okay?

553
00:21:56,497 --> 00:21:58,810
The Supreme Courts said, uh uh.

554
00:21:58,810 --> 00:22:00,560
Can't do that, you just can't do it.

555
00:22:00,560 --> 00:22:02,980
Summers stands for that proposition.

556
00:22:02,980 --> 00:22:04,540
There's more to it than
that and it's worth

557
00:22:04,540 --> 00:22:08,655
reading but some things
are just not includable

558
00:22:08,655 --> 00:22:12,060
in a lease and that's
a pretty good example.

559
00:22:12,060 --> 00:22:14,261
And that's why I think that probably

560
00:22:14,261 --> 00:22:16,090
Judge Halligan was persuaded

561
00:22:16,090 --> 00:22:19,490
that the weird things
in the Galbreath case,

562
00:22:19,490 --> 00:22:21,650
the District Court case probably

563
00:22:21,650 --> 00:22:22,950
shouldn't have been there.

564
00:22:24,480 --> 00:22:27,410
Landlords and tenants,
that's one nice thing

565
00:22:27,410 --> 00:22:29,950
about the MRLTA, they're both rights

566
00:22:29,950 --> 00:22:32,400
and responsibilities on both sides, okay?

567
00:22:32,400 --> 00:22:35,630
And they're pretty fair
and make good sense.

568
00:22:35,630 --> 00:22:38,140
So the landlord has
obligations to maintain

569
00:22:38,140 --> 00:22:39,920
the premises, so does the tenant.

570
00:22:39,920 --> 00:22:42,210
So, some of the common provisions

571
00:22:42,210 --> 00:22:45,089
are such things as, maintain the premises.

572
00:22:45,089 --> 00:22:47,863
You know, just common sense stuff.

573
00:22:48,800 --> 00:22:50,120
So that if something goes bad

574
00:22:50,120 --> 00:22:51,780
you got to fix it, okay?

575
00:22:51,780 --> 00:22:54,410
So, eventually the court decided

576
00:22:54,410 --> 00:22:58,030
that that was our
Warranty of Habitability.

577
00:22:58,030 --> 00:22:59,220
Those are all conditions

578
00:22:59,220 --> 00:23:02,070
upon which we can agree most of the time.

579
00:23:02,070 --> 00:23:03,096
If the furnace goes bad

580
00:23:03,096 --> 00:23:04,330
the landlord ought to fix it.

581
00:23:04,330 --> 00:23:05,340
Those kind of things.

582
00:23:05,340 --> 00:23:08,710
If something breaks it has to be repaired.

583
00:23:08,710 --> 00:23:11,490
So, it's not weird

584
00:23:11,490 --> 00:23:14,670
but they're just common sense things.

585
00:23:14,670 --> 00:23:16,490
So we don't get into situations like this,

586
00:23:16,490 --> 00:23:18,590
I hope you can, you probably can't see

587
00:23:18,590 --> 00:23:20,340
that very well, just to give you an idea,

588
00:23:20,340 --> 00:23:22,180
this is a basement in East Missoula

589
00:23:23,100 --> 00:23:28,100
where the tenants were residing

590
00:23:28,200 --> 00:23:30,800
and this was where they
normally had their wash,

591
00:23:30,800 --> 00:23:32,260
just to give you a little background,

592
00:23:32,260 --> 00:23:33,900
here's a better close up, again,

593
00:23:33,900 --> 00:23:36,570
kind of a concrete,
nothing particularly bad

594
00:23:36,570 --> 00:23:38,620
about this, just kind of dumpy.

595
00:23:38,620 --> 00:23:41,490
So, here on the other
hand, right in the middle,

596
00:23:41,490 --> 00:23:42,920
between the washer and the dryer

597
00:23:42,920 --> 00:23:46,820
is a, looks like about
a 40 gallon Tupperware

598
00:23:46,820 --> 00:23:50,690
or Rubbermaid container holding the water

599
00:23:50,690 --> 00:23:54,203
that had dripped on there
overnight, 24 hours.

600
00:23:55,840 --> 00:23:57,480
That's what happened when
the tenant complained.

601
00:23:57,480 --> 00:23:59,198
Yeah, I got this dripping downstairs.

602
00:23:59,198 --> 00:24:01,960
Here, this'll work.

603
00:24:01,960 --> 00:24:03,690
No repair just dripping.

604
00:24:03,690 --> 00:24:07,720
And she put the styrofoam cup there

605
00:24:07,720 --> 00:24:09,140
just to show you how much water

606
00:24:09,140 --> 00:24:11,313
had accumulated during
that period of time.

607
00:24:12,770 --> 00:24:13,720
How 'bout this one?

608
00:24:15,310 --> 00:24:18,190
Dear Landlord, when I
first moved in you said

609
00:24:18,190 --> 00:24:21,330
you were gonna fix these
fixtures in the hallway

610
00:24:21,330 --> 00:24:22,163
but they're still hanging there

611
00:24:22,163 --> 00:24:23,580
and I'm a little concerned

612
00:24:23,580 --> 00:24:25,003
about putting in a light.

613
00:24:26,160 --> 00:24:28,533
There, now you satisfied?

614
00:24:29,760 --> 00:24:31,170
You'd think at least the landlord

615
00:24:31,170 --> 00:24:33,810
could have chosen white duct tape.

616
00:24:33,810 --> 00:24:35,840
Red Green would be proud
of that one I think.

617
00:24:35,840 --> 00:24:38,002
So, how 'bout this one?

618
00:24:38,002 --> 00:24:39,400
I don't know if you can see this very well

619
00:24:39,400 --> 00:24:41,810
on that but right there
there's about a three inch

620
00:24:41,810 --> 00:24:43,960
gap between the wall and the sink.

621
00:24:43,960 --> 00:24:45,460
The sink is actually standing up

622
00:24:45,460 --> 00:24:47,880
on pieces of pipe.

623
00:24:47,880 --> 00:24:50,770
No, there's nothing here.

624
00:24:50,770 --> 00:24:52,470
The pipe is what's holding up the sink.

625
00:24:52,470 --> 00:24:54,730
When the landlord, when I mentioned

626
00:24:54,730 --> 00:24:56,390
this to the landlord the landlord said,

627
00:24:56,390 --> 00:24:58,240
well, what's the problem Mr. Sitte,

628
00:24:58,240 --> 00:25:01,063
does her toothbrush roll
of the back of the sink?

629
00:25:03,510 --> 00:25:06,890
That's just kind of, is
that alone uninhabitable?

630
00:25:06,890 --> 00:25:09,042
No, but with accumulation of other things

631
00:25:09,042 --> 00:25:14,042
in that apartment it just was not nice.

632
00:25:14,650 --> 00:25:15,840
Let's call it that.

633
00:25:15,840 --> 00:25:18,260
Here's one, this is in East Missoula.

634
00:25:18,260 --> 00:25:21,270
That is a piece of fungus.

635
00:25:21,270 --> 00:25:23,060
Okay, these are washcloths here.

636
00:25:23,060 --> 00:25:25,940
But this is the amount of mold and fungus.

637
00:25:25,940 --> 00:25:28,740
This is the black mold
but not the dangerous

638
00:25:28,740 --> 00:25:32,510
really serious kind but this fungus grew

639
00:25:32,510 --> 00:25:34,450
over a long weekend,
like a Labor Day Weekend,

640
00:25:34,450 --> 00:25:35,500
it might have been Memorial Day,

641
00:25:35,500 --> 00:25:38,540
I can't remember which,
while she was gone.

642
00:25:38,540 --> 00:25:41,020
This is what the sink
underneath looked like.

643
00:25:41,020 --> 00:25:42,530
Yeah, really, look at all

644
00:25:42,530 --> 00:25:44,550
that black stuff back there.

645
00:25:44,550 --> 00:25:46,130
And all of this was there

646
00:25:46,130 --> 00:25:49,700
when they moved in,
including the bowed sink

647
00:25:49,700 --> 00:25:52,020
and I'm always interested in seeing

648
00:25:52,020 --> 00:25:54,240
the ceiling light here

649
00:25:54,240 --> 00:25:57,220
which apparently was not used very often

650
00:25:57,220 --> 00:25:59,983
by the landlord, there's
a better close up.

651
00:26:02,050 --> 00:26:04,173
But there's a picture of that mold.

652
00:26:05,030 --> 00:26:08,003
That's just a big chunk of mold.

653
00:26:09,230 --> 00:26:10,850
Okay, so is the landlord

654
00:26:10,850 --> 00:26:11,683
required to fix that stuff?

655
00:26:11,683 --> 00:26:13,300
Well, of course, the landlord

656
00:26:13,300 --> 00:26:15,360
has an obligation to repair

657
00:26:15,360 --> 00:26:16,700
and maintain the premises.

658
00:26:16,700 --> 00:26:19,070
So, one of the classic examples

659
00:26:19,070 --> 00:26:22,400
is the case from the Drummond area.

660
00:26:22,400 --> 00:26:24,930
It's a 1981 case as I recall

661
00:26:24,930 --> 00:26:27,980
and in that particular case the landlord

662
00:26:27,980 --> 00:26:29,650
got a call from the tenant saying,

663
00:26:29,650 --> 00:26:31,730
you know every time I
touch the light switch

664
00:26:31,730 --> 00:26:33,960
in the bathroom I get a shock

665
00:26:33,960 --> 00:26:35,650
and the landlord's response was,

666
00:26:35,650 --> 00:26:38,770
hey, if you don't like it you can leave.

667
00:26:38,770 --> 00:26:40,120
Well the next time the landlord

668
00:26:40,120 --> 00:26:41,630
heard from the tenant it wasn't really

669
00:26:41,630 --> 00:26:44,370
that tenant it was the tenant's widow.

670
00:26:44,370 --> 00:26:47,636
The person died from
touching that light switch

671
00:26:47,636 --> 00:26:48,957
and it went to the Supreme Court

672
00:26:48,957 --> 00:26:51,840
and the landlord's
attorney's actually argued,

673
00:26:51,840 --> 00:26:55,080
hey you're suing us as a Tort.

674
00:26:55,080 --> 00:26:58,620
And there's a line, shall we call it

675
00:26:58,620 --> 00:27:00,770
to make it simple,
between Tort and contract.

676
00:27:00,770 --> 00:27:02,440
If we have a contract you can sue

677
00:27:02,440 --> 00:27:03,620
me for breach of contract,

678
00:27:03,620 --> 00:27:05,420
you can't sue me for Tort.

679
00:27:05,420 --> 00:27:07,720
That was their legal defense.

680
00:27:07,720 --> 00:27:09,810
And the Supreme Court basically said,

681
00:27:09,810 --> 00:27:11,340
gimme a break, somebody died here

682
00:27:11,340 --> 00:27:12,770
and it wasn't the tenant's fault.

683
00:27:12,770 --> 00:27:14,470
Somebody should've taken care of this

684
00:27:14,470 --> 00:27:16,470
and they didn't and as a result

685
00:27:16,470 --> 00:27:17,990
they sent it back to the jury

686
00:27:17,990 --> 00:27:19,597
to come up with the amount of damages.

687
00:27:19,597 --> 00:27:22,230
And we don't know what
happened 'cause the case

688
00:27:22,230 --> 00:27:23,730
settled after that but I can imagine

689
00:27:23,730 --> 00:27:27,100
the landlord's attorney's
or insurance company

690
00:27:27,100 --> 00:27:28,120
running with their checkbook

691
00:27:28,120 --> 00:27:31,630
to settle that one out,
Corrigan versus Janney.

692
00:27:31,630 --> 00:27:33,960
And that one really set the tone

693
00:27:33,960 --> 00:27:38,960
for the Warranty of
Habitability in Montana.

694
00:27:39,080 --> 00:27:42,140
You can't do that, essentially.

695
00:27:42,140 --> 00:27:44,320
Mathes versus Adams and Magruder,

696
00:27:44,320 --> 00:27:45,930
this is a case that came out of Missoula

697
00:27:45,930 --> 00:27:48,320
that we're, Montana Legal Services

698
00:27:48,320 --> 00:27:50,264
and I represented 10 tenants

699
00:27:50,264 --> 00:27:53,020
that lived in a little dumpy trailer court

700
00:27:53,020 --> 00:27:54,352
called The River Road Trailer Court,

701
00:27:54,352 --> 00:27:56,810
isn't there anymore,
but if you're on Russell

702
00:27:56,810 --> 00:27:58,010
and you try to go to Reserve

703
00:27:58,010 --> 00:27:59,800
you go along River Road and there was this

704
00:27:59,800 --> 00:28:01,500
little trailer court that I swear

705
00:28:01,500 --> 00:28:04,400
had never ever ever been repaired

706
00:28:04,400 --> 00:28:06,340
since it had been built.

707
00:28:06,340 --> 00:28:09,490
The condition, if you really want to read

708
00:28:09,490 --> 00:28:11,180
what some of the tenants in Montana

709
00:28:11,180 --> 00:28:13,510
have to put up with read that statement

710
00:28:13,510 --> 00:28:17,280
by the judge or the court

711
00:28:17,280 --> 00:28:19,270
just to give you an idea of what things

712
00:28:19,270 --> 00:28:20,200
they have to put up with.

713
00:28:20,200 --> 00:28:23,068
There were, they had a wash house

714
00:28:23,068 --> 00:28:26,610
which had two or three,
maybe six at one time,

715
00:28:26,610 --> 00:28:29,190
washers and dryers, when they got bad

716
00:28:29,190 --> 00:28:30,630
they were just locked up.

717
00:28:30,630 --> 00:28:31,990
They were never repaired.

718
00:28:31,990 --> 00:28:35,400
When all of them failed the landlord said,

719
00:28:35,400 --> 00:28:38,060
okay, tough luck, and he just boarded

720
00:28:38,060 --> 00:28:40,030
this thing up, it looked like an abandoned

721
00:28:40,030 --> 00:28:41,880
building in the middle
of this trailer park.

722
00:28:41,880 --> 00:28:45,153
The roadway which I swear had never been

723
00:28:45,153 --> 00:28:47,690
either paved or graveled or anything

724
00:28:47,690 --> 00:28:51,020
was so dirty and bumpy in the spring,

725
00:28:51,020 --> 00:28:52,081
some of the holes were big enough

726
00:28:52,081 --> 00:28:54,770
to hide to Volkswagen
in, it was just awful.

727
00:28:54,770 --> 00:28:57,440
And the tenants would constantly complain

728
00:28:57,440 --> 00:28:59,900
about sewage bubbling up right next

729
00:28:59,900 --> 00:29:01,270
to the trailer all the time

730
00:29:01,270 --> 00:29:03,740
because the septic system
failed so frequently.

731
00:29:03,740 --> 00:29:07,130
And the landlord knew
about these conditions

732
00:29:07,130 --> 00:29:10,230
and simply told, they did nothing.

733
00:29:10,230 --> 00:29:13,250
In fact, when they were
told that they were gonna

734
00:29:13,250 --> 00:29:15,900
organize, when the landlord
was told the tenants

735
00:29:15,900 --> 00:29:17,620
were gonna organize a tenant's union

736
00:29:17,620 --> 00:29:19,073
he had all of the tenants,

737
00:29:20,570 --> 00:29:22,050
the manager go around
to all of the tenants

738
00:29:22,050 --> 00:29:23,400
and have them sign a statement

739
00:29:23,400 --> 00:29:27,010
that the conditions of
the premises met the code

740
00:29:27,010 --> 00:29:29,440
which none of the tenants would sign.

741
00:29:29,440 --> 00:29:30,318
And when they didn't sign,

742
00:29:30,318 --> 00:29:31,820
they had no rental agreement

743
00:29:31,820 --> 00:29:34,153
they were going to then be evicted.

744
00:29:35,120 --> 00:29:39,180
The place was a dump and that's the best

745
00:29:39,180 --> 00:29:41,370
I can tell ya, that case stands for the,

746
00:29:41,370 --> 00:29:44,074
oh and the landlord's defense was, okay,

747
00:29:44,074 --> 00:29:49,074
so, it wasn't the best
place to have a rental

748
00:29:49,750 --> 00:29:53,530
in the world but they actually defended

749
00:29:53,530 --> 00:29:56,477
on the grounds of you get
what you pay for, okay?

750
00:29:56,477 --> 00:29:58,490
And the Supreme Court said, no.

751
00:29:58,490 --> 00:29:59,850
No, that's not right.

752
00:29:59,850 --> 00:30:03,110
They paid for residential living

753
00:30:03,110 --> 00:30:05,300
not to store their trailers there

754
00:30:05,300 --> 00:30:07,230
regardless of what a bargain it might

755
00:30:07,230 --> 00:30:08,260
or might not have been.

756
00:30:08,260 --> 00:30:10,420
You are paying to live there.

757
00:30:10,420 --> 00:30:12,890
And then the second
defense by the landlord

758
00:30:12,890 --> 00:30:16,640
was, okay, maybe, again,
if you're not gonna

759
00:30:16,640 --> 00:30:18,240
buy that, how 'bout this one?

760
00:30:18,240 --> 00:30:22,490
They never told us in
writing of the landlord,

761
00:30:22,490 --> 00:30:24,840
of our breach of the rental agreement,

762
00:30:24,840 --> 00:30:27,580
of our duties to maintain.

763
00:30:27,580 --> 00:30:28,970
And the Supreme Court said,

764
00:30:28,970 --> 00:30:30,780
you had a Resident Manager there

765
00:30:30,780 --> 00:30:33,330
that actually participated in making

766
00:30:33,330 --> 00:30:36,350
the place uninhabitable
by doing some of these

767
00:30:36,350 --> 00:30:40,490
bad acting things and
so they implied notice

768
00:30:40,490 --> 00:30:42,170
regardless of whether written notice,

769
00:30:42,170 --> 00:30:44,530
which is required under the act,

770
00:30:44,530 --> 00:30:46,990
was there or not so that stands

771
00:30:46,990 --> 00:30:47,880
for the proposition,

772
00:30:47,880 --> 00:30:50,070
that if you've got notice you got notice.

773
00:30:50,070 --> 00:30:52,243
That's pretty good for tenants.

774
00:30:53,310 --> 00:30:56,600
Busch versus Kammerer,
another case out of Missoula.

775
00:30:56,600 --> 00:31:00,580
Imagine a place with two walls,

776
00:31:00,580 --> 00:31:02,100
two houses and it's a little bit

777
00:31:02,100 --> 00:31:03,210
farther apart than this,

778
00:31:03,210 --> 00:31:05,770
let's give it another half of a room

779
00:31:05,770 --> 00:31:07,690
far apart like this, so what is that?

780
00:31:07,690 --> 00:31:10,480
Maybe 20 feet apart, two houses.

781
00:31:10,480 --> 00:31:12,067
The landlord owns both.

782
00:31:12,067 --> 00:31:14,840
The tenant is a student,
comes to town late

783
00:31:14,840 --> 00:31:16,360
trying to get a place to rent,

784
00:31:16,360 --> 00:31:18,300
she sees the landlord in this place

785
00:31:18,300 --> 00:31:20,596
doing some stuff and
says, can I rent this?

786
00:31:20,596 --> 00:31:24,450
He says, you know I'm
not really ready yet.

787
00:31:24,450 --> 00:31:25,520
I got some stuff to do.

788
00:31:25,520 --> 00:31:27,520
But I really need it, I need it now.

789
00:31:27,520 --> 00:31:29,083
And he says, all right, okay.

790
00:31:30,090 --> 00:31:31,770
We can do this but I got to tell ya

791
00:31:31,770 --> 00:31:33,920
there is one small
problem with this rental.

792
00:31:33,920 --> 00:31:35,770
The sole source of domestic water

793
00:31:35,770 --> 00:31:38,330
is a garden hose running from house a

794
00:31:38,330 --> 00:31:41,150
to house b but I'll tell you what,

795
00:31:41,150 --> 00:31:42,633
says the landlord, I'm gonna give you

796
00:31:42,633 --> 00:31:44,913
a 10% discount on rent
would have been said,

797
00:31:44,913 --> 00:31:47,350
okay so I'll use the old numbers.

798
00:31:47,350 --> 00:31:48,550
Rent would have been $200 but I'll give

799
00:31:48,550 --> 00:31:50,910
you that 10% discount so your rent

800
00:31:50,910 --> 00:31:52,810
is only gonna be 180.

801
00:31:52,810 --> 00:31:54,380
She thought it was a bargain at 200

802
00:31:54,380 --> 00:31:56,710
so she decides to rent this place.

803
00:31:56,710 --> 00:31:58,790
Six months go by and the landlord

804
00:31:58,790 --> 00:32:01,120
sends her a notice that we're gonna

805
00:32:01,120 --> 00:32:02,960
increase the rent, I always do this after

806
00:32:02,960 --> 00:32:05,030
six months with tenants so your rent

807
00:32:05,030 --> 00:32:07,670
is gonna be 225 but of course I gave

808
00:32:07,670 --> 00:32:09,800
you that 10% discount for that defect

809
00:32:09,800 --> 00:32:10,830
and that'll still apply.

810
00:32:10,830 --> 00:32:13,720
You can do the math on
what she's paying then.

811
00:32:13,720 --> 00:32:15,190
So then along comes spring

812
00:32:15,190 --> 00:32:18,600
and it's a nice spring day.

813
00:32:18,600 --> 00:32:20,760
She decides she's gonna wash her hair

814
00:32:20,760 --> 00:32:23,047
in the sink and she's got it all suds up

815
00:32:23,047 --> 00:32:26,290
and turns on the water, there's no water.

816
00:32:26,290 --> 00:32:28,270
Goes in the bathroom, tries the tub,

817
00:32:28,270 --> 00:32:29,770
shower, there's no water.

818
00:32:29,770 --> 00:32:31,470
The sink has no water.

819
00:32:31,470 --> 00:32:33,330
She finally looks outside and the tenant

820
00:32:33,330 --> 00:32:35,440
in house b is washing his car

821
00:32:35,440 --> 00:32:36,790
using the garden hose.

822
00:32:36,790 --> 00:32:39,750
She's not gonna have any
water 'til he's done.

823
00:32:39,750 --> 00:32:41,320
What do you think she's entitled

824
00:32:41,320 --> 00:32:43,210
to when she finally decides to approach

825
00:32:43,210 --> 00:32:45,853
the landlord and say, you owe me what?

826
00:32:46,970 --> 00:32:48,040
Water.

827
00:32:48,040 --> 00:32:50,363
That's one thing, water, what else?

828
00:32:56,280 --> 00:32:59,040
If I were to go to court, since I would be

829
00:32:59,040 --> 00:33:00,530
without water during this interim,

830
00:33:00,530 --> 00:33:02,773
what would you demand of the landlord?

831
00:33:06,660 --> 00:33:07,493
I'd demand attorney's fees

832
00:33:07,493 --> 00:33:09,520
for having to go to court.

833
00:33:09,520 --> 00:33:11,433
That would be one, that'd be good.

834
00:33:12,410 --> 00:33:15,260
What was the, well let's back up.

835
00:33:15,260 --> 00:33:17,189
One of the obligations of the landlord

836
00:33:17,189 --> 00:33:19,810
under the landlord obligations

837
00:33:19,810 --> 00:33:21,120
to maintain the premises

838
00:33:21,120 --> 00:33:23,290
is that it must meet code.

839
00:33:23,290 --> 00:33:26,560
Anybody think that running a garden hose

840
00:33:26,560 --> 00:33:29,030
from house a to house b meets code?

841
00:33:29,030 --> 00:33:32,447
Yeah, so the Busch versus
Kammerer case stands.

842
00:33:32,447 --> 00:33:34,130
It went to the Supreme Court on slightly

843
00:33:34,130 --> 00:33:35,310
different issues but it stands

844
00:33:35,310 --> 00:33:37,630
for the proposition that a landlord

845
00:33:37,630 --> 00:33:40,500
cannot rent a place
that doesn't meet code.

846
00:33:40,500 --> 00:33:41,800
That's what the statute says

847
00:33:41,800 --> 00:33:45,040
and so the landlord is
entitled to no rent.

848
00:33:45,040 --> 00:33:47,758
So, what's the tenant entitled to?

849
00:33:47,758 --> 00:33:50,870
All of the rent she paid for this place

850
00:33:50,870 --> 00:33:53,070
for the entire period
of time she lived there.

851
00:33:53,070 --> 00:33:55,263
Even though she thought it was a bargain.

852
00:33:56,240 --> 00:33:57,830
You can't just say, again,

853
00:33:57,830 --> 00:33:59,970
oh, we have this secret agreement,

854
00:33:59,970 --> 00:34:02,010
that the Landlord Tenant
Act doesn't apply, no.

855
00:34:02,010 --> 00:34:03,160
You can't do that.

856
00:34:03,160 --> 00:34:06,660
It stands for that
proposition that he violated

857
00:34:06,660 --> 00:34:08,460
the code under those circumstances.

858
00:34:08,460 --> 00:34:10,150
Another good example is one that happened

859
00:34:10,150 --> 00:34:13,481
to me just shortly before I left

860
00:34:13,481 --> 00:34:15,300
Montana Legal Services.

861
00:34:15,300 --> 00:34:17,150
A tenant lives in Havre

862
00:34:17,150 --> 00:34:21,360
and they rent, I think he was a teacher

863
00:34:21,360 --> 00:34:25,110
renting a remodeled garage, essentially.

864
00:34:25,110 --> 00:34:27,330
And the neighbors are
the owners of the house.

865
00:34:27,330 --> 00:34:29,480
They're maybe 40 feet away

866
00:34:29,480 --> 00:34:30,820
but they rent this garage,

867
00:34:30,820 --> 00:34:32,930
it's a little bit better than a one room

868
00:34:32,930 --> 00:34:34,900
'cause there's also a, it's like a studio

869
00:34:34,900 --> 00:34:37,150
but it has a separate bathroom.

870
00:34:37,150 --> 00:34:38,177
And he and his wife were in there

871
00:34:38,177 --> 00:34:40,200
at one time and then in the winter

872
00:34:40,200 --> 00:34:42,690
the place is just
gettin' colder and damper

873
00:34:42,690 --> 00:34:44,910
all the time and then
they come home one day

874
00:34:44,910 --> 00:34:47,060
from work and they see a whole bunch

875
00:34:47,060 --> 00:34:49,550
of green mold growing around the edge

876
00:34:49,550 --> 00:34:50,910
of the bottom and they think,

877
00:34:50,910 --> 00:34:53,290
oh the landlord's gonna
hold us responsible

878
00:34:53,290 --> 00:34:55,330
for that so he goes down there and starts

879
00:34:55,330 --> 00:34:57,930
picking at it and using Clorox and things.

880
00:34:57,930 --> 00:34:59,060
And he's picking a little bit more

881
00:34:59,060 --> 00:35:01,317
and suddenly one of the boards pop up

882
00:35:01,317 --> 00:35:03,070
and the flooring is nice flooring,

883
00:35:03,070 --> 00:35:04,947
it's Pergo Flooring, expensive stuff

884
00:35:04,947 --> 00:35:07,350
and it was laid properly right underneath

885
00:35:07,350 --> 00:35:09,430
that Pergo is that spongy foam

886
00:35:09,430 --> 00:35:11,680
that they use to lay it on and he picks

887
00:35:11,680 --> 00:35:13,260
at that a little while and he pulls it up

888
00:35:13,260 --> 00:35:15,320
a little bit more, it's laid right over

889
00:35:15,320 --> 00:35:18,890
dirt floor, on the ground.

890
00:35:18,890 --> 00:35:21,270
Tamped but it's dirt.

891
00:35:21,270 --> 00:35:24,070
How many of you think that meets code?

892
00:35:24,070 --> 00:35:27,510
Even in Havre that doesn't
meet code, you know?

893
00:35:27,510 --> 00:35:29,780
Ya can't do that and
yet they'd been living

894
00:35:29,780 --> 00:35:33,690
there in a place that
was not code eligible

895
00:35:33,690 --> 00:35:35,243
and so whatever they paid, again,

896
00:35:35,243 --> 00:35:37,310
they were entitled to get back.

897
00:35:37,310 --> 00:35:39,202
That one didn't go to the supreme's.

898
00:35:39,202 --> 00:35:41,097
Oh I don't have to drive.

899
00:35:41,097 --> 00:35:43,015
So, now we've got the landlord duties,

900
00:35:43,015 --> 00:35:44,940
what are the tenant's duties?

901
00:35:44,940 --> 00:35:47,700
Same thing, common sense requirements.

902
00:35:47,700 --> 00:35:49,520
Take care of the place essentially.

903
00:35:49,520 --> 00:35:53,980
Keep it clean is what
those requirements say.

904
00:35:53,980 --> 00:35:55,530
Responsibility for your guests.

905
00:35:55,530 --> 00:35:57,126
If you aren't going to do it right

906
00:35:57,126 --> 00:35:59,200
or if you do it right you expect

907
00:35:59,200 --> 00:36:00,478
the guests you invite in there

908
00:36:00,478 --> 00:36:02,350
are going to do it right as well

909
00:36:02,350 --> 00:36:03,620
and if they don't you're gonna be

910
00:36:03,620 --> 00:36:06,120
responsible for any damages that they do.

911
00:36:06,120 --> 00:36:09,180
Simple, non-controversial,

912
00:36:09,180 --> 00:36:11,080
common sense requirements.

913
00:36:11,080 --> 00:36:13,590
And you're supposed to use the premises

914
00:36:13,590 --> 00:36:14,900
for which it's intended,

915
00:36:14,900 --> 00:36:17,183
in other words, a residence.

916
00:36:17,183 --> 00:36:20,100
So, when the tenant finally confesses

917
00:36:20,100 --> 00:36:21,850
to me that, oh yeah, okay, all right.

918
00:36:21,850 --> 00:36:24,820
I admit Klaus that I took my Harley apart

919
00:36:24,820 --> 00:36:26,370
in the living room and washed the parts

920
00:36:26,370 --> 00:36:29,950
in the bathtub, that's not an intended use

921
00:36:29,950 --> 00:36:32,770
and you can't do that and the landlord

922
00:36:32,770 --> 00:36:35,330
has the right to terminate that tenancy

923
00:36:35,330 --> 00:36:37,410
under those circumstances.

924
00:36:37,410 --> 00:36:40,570
The tenant may not, and
this a fairly new section

925
00:36:40,570 --> 00:36:43,580
and by new to me in the last 10 years,

926
00:36:43,580 --> 00:36:45,550
a tenant may not engage or knowingly

927
00:36:45,550 --> 00:36:47,240
allow a criminal production

928
00:36:47,240 --> 00:36:50,320
or manufacturer or operation

929
00:36:50,320 --> 00:36:52,760
of an unlawful clandestine laboratory.

930
00:36:52,760 --> 00:36:53,810
Someone can tell me

931
00:36:53,810 --> 00:36:57,630
what a lawful clandestine
laboratory would be

932
00:36:57,630 --> 00:36:59,400
but that's the way they write the code,

933
00:36:59,400 --> 00:37:00,880
I had nothing to do with that section.

934
00:37:00,880 --> 00:37:03,610
So, gang related activities,

935
00:37:03,610 --> 00:37:05,500
criminal production of manufacturer gains

936
00:37:05,500 --> 00:37:07,540
is drugs, all of those kind of things.

937
00:37:07,540 --> 00:37:09,610
Notice that it doesn't make these things

938
00:37:09,610 --> 00:37:11,440
illegal it's just that the tenant

939
00:37:11,440 --> 00:37:13,660
can't do them and that would justify

940
00:37:13,660 --> 00:37:16,310
terminating a tenancy, okay?

941
00:37:16,310 --> 00:37:17,480
Of course they're illegal elsewhere

942
00:37:17,480 --> 00:37:20,350
but that's not the point of the section

943
00:37:20,350 --> 00:37:21,950
of the tenant's responsibility

944
00:37:21,950 --> 00:37:23,620
to maintain the premises.

945
00:37:23,620 --> 00:37:25,780
So, we've got landlord's responsibilities

946
00:37:25,780 --> 00:37:27,140
and tenant's responsibilities

947
00:37:27,140 --> 00:37:30,140
and they mirror each
other to a certain extent.

948
00:37:30,140 --> 00:37:33,620
Landlord can make rules
but there are limitations

949
00:37:33,620 --> 00:37:35,060
on what the rules ought to be.

950
00:37:35,060 --> 00:37:36,940
Fairness is fundamental.

951
00:37:36,940 --> 00:37:38,400
Now, tenant's ask me all the time,

952
00:37:38,400 --> 00:37:41,160
so, I just moved in and I found out

953
00:37:41,160 --> 00:37:44,540
the tenant in apartment a pays $70

954
00:37:44,540 --> 00:37:46,940
less in rent than I do,
that doesn't sound fair.

955
00:37:48,330 --> 00:37:50,200
Sure it does, they were in there longer.

956
00:37:50,200 --> 00:37:51,130
They started earlier.

957
00:37:51,130 --> 00:37:53,690
That has nothing to do
with fundamental fairness.

958
00:37:53,690 --> 00:37:57,950
It's when I adopt a rule
that unfairly applies

959
00:37:57,950 --> 00:38:00,860
to all tenants, that's where the fairness,

960
00:38:00,860 --> 00:38:03,520
the fundamental stuff starts to apply.

961
00:38:03,520 --> 00:38:05,640
And it has to have a reasonable

962
00:38:05,640 --> 00:38:07,550
relationship to it's purpose.

963
00:38:07,550 --> 00:38:12,040
So, let's assume Linda Landlord

964
00:38:12,040 --> 00:38:14,250
and Tracy Tenant are having some problems.

965
00:38:14,250 --> 00:38:18,080
And one of the problems that Tracy,

966
00:38:18,080 --> 00:38:20,380
that Linda has with Tracy is that Tracy

967
00:38:20,380 --> 00:38:23,310
never parks her car in the right spot.

968
00:38:23,310 --> 00:38:26,280
Every time she comes out
and she gets complaints

969
00:38:26,280 --> 00:38:28,090
from the other three tenants

970
00:38:28,090 --> 00:38:33,090
in this quad building and sometimes

971
00:38:34,440 --> 00:38:37,150
she's parked in apartment a, or spot a,

972
00:38:37,150 --> 00:38:39,490
sometimes in spot d and sometimes,

973
00:38:39,490 --> 00:38:41,900
sort of in two or three at the same time.

974
00:38:41,900 --> 00:38:44,700
So, she goes to a landlord's meeting

975
00:38:44,700 --> 00:38:47,260
and the Tenant Landlord Association

976
00:38:47,260 --> 00:38:50,820
tells Tracy, or tells Linda,

977
00:38:50,820 --> 00:38:52,530
you know you can make an iron clad rule.

978
00:38:52,530 --> 00:38:54,100
You can make sure that they follow

979
00:38:54,100 --> 00:38:55,660
those rules and if they don't

980
00:38:55,660 --> 00:38:57,430
you can terminate the tenancy.

981
00:38:57,430 --> 00:39:00,090
So she goes back and
issues the following edict,

982
00:39:00,090 --> 00:39:02,140
from now on hence and even forever more,

983
00:39:02,140 --> 00:39:04,380
though shalt park in only thy assigned

984
00:39:04,380 --> 00:39:08,090
parking spot and no
unlicensed or registered

985
00:39:08,090 --> 00:39:10,023
vehicles are allowed to park there.

986
00:39:11,010 --> 00:39:12,010
Okay.

987
00:39:12,010 --> 00:39:14,800
So, she goes back a month after,

988
00:39:14,800 --> 00:39:17,440
it takes effect in a
month, then she's ready.

989
00:39:17,440 --> 00:39:18,820
She's got her video camera

990
00:39:18,820 --> 00:39:21,280
and she's gonna video the violation.

991
00:39:21,280 --> 00:39:23,010
And she moves down and she pans

992
00:39:23,010 --> 00:39:26,940
and Tracy's in the right spot.

993
00:39:26,940 --> 00:39:30,040
Can't get her this time
or at least not today.

994
00:39:30,040 --> 00:39:31,600
But she just got this video cam

995
00:39:31,600 --> 00:39:33,010
so she's gonna play with it a while.

996
00:39:33,010 --> 00:39:35,870
She goes down to spot d and sees

997
00:39:35,870 --> 00:39:37,810
that the person in spot d

998
00:39:37,810 --> 00:39:39,890
doesn't have the little
registration sticker,

999
00:39:39,890 --> 00:39:41,980
the new one for you get annually

1000
00:39:41,980 --> 00:39:44,460
that you put on your
license plate on the car.

1001
00:39:44,460 --> 00:39:46,860
Ah, she's gonna get someone that day

1002
00:39:46,860 --> 00:39:48,560
so she sends a notice to the tenant

1003
00:39:48,560 --> 00:39:51,310
in spot d, you're not following the rules.

1004
00:39:51,310 --> 00:39:53,390
You're gonna be evicted.

1005
00:39:53,390 --> 00:39:55,770
That tenant came to
see us and we found out

1006
00:39:55,770 --> 00:39:59,140
later she was a 67 year old woman

1007
00:39:59,140 --> 00:40:00,830
that just had a hip replacement.

1008
00:40:00,830 --> 00:40:02,120
She didn't need the car

1009
00:40:03,230 --> 00:40:06,880
and she'd been in a nursing facility

1010
00:40:06,880 --> 00:40:11,090
for rehab while her hip was healing.

1011
00:40:11,090 --> 00:40:13,740
So, again, she wasn't even there to get

1012
00:40:13,740 --> 00:40:15,360
the notice but eventually she did

1013
00:40:15,360 --> 00:40:16,810
get the notice and came to see us.

1014
00:40:16,810 --> 00:40:20,590
So, at that point, what's the landlord's

1015
00:40:20,590 --> 00:40:23,705
rationale for enforcing
what is essentially

1016
00:40:23,705 --> 00:40:26,970
a rule of the road, okay?

1017
00:40:26,970 --> 00:40:28,980
There is none reasonably related

1018
00:40:28,980 --> 00:40:30,910
to the purpose for which it's intended.

1019
00:40:30,910 --> 00:40:32,960
The purpose for which
it's intended we know.

1020
00:40:32,960 --> 00:40:35,920
We know the history, it
was because Tracy Tenant

1021
00:40:35,920 --> 00:40:38,700
wasn't parking in the right parking spot.

1022
00:40:38,700 --> 00:40:40,540
So the rule was to get people to park

1023
00:40:40,540 --> 00:40:41,600
in the right parking spots

1024
00:40:41,600 --> 00:40:43,150
and instead it turned out

1025
00:40:43,150 --> 00:40:45,220
to be something completely different.

1026
00:40:45,220 --> 00:40:47,150
Reasonably related, again,

1027
00:40:47,150 --> 00:40:48,880
it may be different for mobile home courts

1028
00:40:48,880 --> 00:40:50,700
and if we get a chance we'll talk

1029
00:40:50,700 --> 00:40:53,881
about that and let me
give you some examples.

1030
00:40:53,881 --> 00:40:56,960
Here, no children's toys or adult projects

1031
00:40:56,960 --> 00:40:58,780
shall be left outside of storage areas

1032
00:40:58,780 --> 00:40:59,910
when not in use.

1033
00:40:59,910 --> 00:41:01,610
This comes from an apartment complex

1034
00:41:01,610 --> 00:41:04,450
in Great Falls, maybe 200 units,

1035
00:41:04,450 --> 00:41:06,760
all of which have children.

1036
00:41:06,760 --> 00:41:08,101
Can you imagine getting evicted

1037
00:41:08,101 --> 00:41:10,240
from your premises because the kid

1038
00:41:10,240 --> 00:41:12,503
left the Big Wheel out
in front of the place?

1039
00:41:15,480 --> 00:41:17,450
At no time and under any circumstances

1040
00:41:17,450 --> 00:41:19,420
shall any ball, Frisbee,
or any other object

1041
00:41:19,420 --> 00:41:20,830
be thrown in or around the apartment,

1042
00:41:20,830 --> 00:41:22,600
apartment property or parking lots.

1043
00:41:22,600 --> 00:41:24,300
What do you suppose the purpose

1044
00:41:24,300 --> 00:41:25,963
of that particular rule was?

1045
00:41:26,850 --> 00:41:28,750
-Windows broken.
-Windows.

1046
00:41:28,750 --> 00:41:31,200
So, why not just have a rule that says,

1047
00:41:31,200 --> 00:41:32,990
don't break any windows and if you are

1048
00:41:32,990 --> 00:41:34,180
you'll be held responsible.

1049
00:41:34,180 --> 00:41:35,677
It is in equally as difficult

1050
00:41:35,677 --> 00:41:37,790
to enforce as this one.

1051
00:41:37,790 --> 00:41:39,670
And this one sounds so draconian.

1052
00:41:39,670 --> 00:41:42,733
Of course people, kids,
are gonna throw stuff.

1053
00:41:44,810 --> 00:41:46,288
Children must be adequately supervised

1054
00:41:46,288 --> 00:41:47,730
by parents at all times.

1055
00:41:47,730 --> 00:41:49,570
Child welfare laws will be enforced

1056
00:41:49,570 --> 00:41:52,300
and violations reported as necessary.

1057
00:41:52,300 --> 00:41:54,390
The Child Protective Services workers

1058
00:41:54,390 --> 00:41:56,810
I worked with for years
laughed at this one.

1059
00:41:56,810 --> 00:41:58,593
Yeah, we're comin' right over.

1060
00:41:58,593 --> 00:42:00,050
-You know?
-(laughing)

1061
00:42:00,050 --> 00:42:01,560
Can you imagine in the x's, you know,

1062
00:42:01,560 --> 00:42:04,020
where the kids have the playgrounds

1063
00:42:04,020 --> 00:42:06,100
in the middle of those x's there,

1064
00:42:06,100 --> 00:42:08,060
where the kids are down there playing

1065
00:42:08,060 --> 00:42:09,570
but the parents are on the third floor

1066
00:42:09,570 --> 00:42:10,403
and somebody says,

1067
00:42:10,403 --> 00:42:11,950
your not supervising your kids,

1068
00:42:11,950 --> 00:42:14,590
we're gonna tell the welfare department.

1069
00:42:14,590 --> 00:42:15,523
Really, come on.

1070
00:42:16,640 --> 00:42:18,400
The use of furniture on the patio

1071
00:42:18,400 --> 00:42:20,060
or porch or yard is prohibited

1072
00:42:20,060 --> 00:42:21,380
unless the outdoor furniture's

1073
00:42:21,380 --> 00:42:23,470
approved in advance by the management.

1074
00:42:23,470 --> 00:42:25,990
And there's more rules
below that for that.

1075
00:42:25,990 --> 00:42:26,823
It has to be approved

1076
00:42:26,823 --> 00:42:29,168
by style, color, and content.

1077
00:42:29,168 --> 00:42:31,840
A grouping of three that don't match

1078
00:42:31,840 --> 00:42:33,860
will be considered as
three different ones.

1079
00:42:33,860 --> 00:42:36,290
You could only have a
grouping that matched.

1080
00:42:36,290 --> 00:42:37,943
So, it was crazy stuff.

1081
00:42:39,300 --> 00:42:40,670
When you are given notice to move

1082
00:42:40,670 --> 00:42:43,050
you shall move out as specified.

1083
00:42:43,050 --> 00:42:44,113
If you have not moved out

1084
00:42:44,113 --> 00:42:46,470
criminal proceedings will be filed.

1085
00:42:46,470 --> 00:42:49,250
Oh yeah, the county
attorneys loved this one too.

1086
00:42:49,250 --> 00:42:51,090
No county attorney is gonna file

1087
00:42:51,090 --> 00:42:54,060
trespass charges in a situation like this.

1088
00:42:54,060 --> 00:42:55,830
In the event you are evicted you will not

1089
00:42:55,830 --> 00:42:57,590
be allowed access to your mobile home

1090
00:42:57,590 --> 00:42:58,910
while awaiting its removal.

1091
00:42:58,910 --> 00:43:01,010
Now remember this is the
one where the landlord

1092
00:43:01,010 --> 00:43:03,470
is just renting the space

1093
00:43:03,470 --> 00:43:05,960
but the mobile home's owned by the tenant

1094
00:43:05,960 --> 00:43:08,540
or at least mortgaged by the tenant.

1095
00:43:08,540 --> 00:43:10,557
In this particular case that had this rule

1096
00:43:10,557 --> 00:43:12,780
the landlord actually got to the point

1097
00:43:12,780 --> 00:43:17,500
where they shrink wrapped
the whole mobile home

1098
00:43:17,500 --> 00:43:19,940
with that yellow crime tape,

1099
00:43:19,940 --> 00:43:21,805
do not cross, do not cross.

1100
00:43:21,805 --> 00:43:23,820
And the tenant had a difficult time

1101
00:43:23,820 --> 00:43:26,680
just getting the medications and diapers

1102
00:43:26,680 --> 00:43:28,960
and so on for their
kids out of the trailer

1103
00:43:28,960 --> 00:43:30,470
and not knowing that she had the right

1104
00:43:30,470 --> 00:43:32,380
to do so regardless.

1105
00:43:32,380 --> 00:43:35,580
So, got to have reasonable rules.

1106
00:43:35,580 --> 00:43:37,063
Access to the premises.

1107
00:43:38,300 --> 00:43:40,650
Landlord's are entitled to have access

1108
00:43:40,650 --> 00:43:41,940
but they have to give

1109
00:43:41,940 --> 00:43:43,600
24 hours notice all the time.

1110
00:43:43,600 --> 00:43:46,080
It is insufficient for a landlord to say

1111
00:43:46,080 --> 00:43:48,324
something like, dear tenant,

1112
00:43:48,324 --> 00:43:50,340
this is the September month.

1113
00:43:50,340 --> 00:43:52,540
You know we always inspect this month

1114
00:43:52,540 --> 00:43:54,310
so here's your 24 hours notice

1115
00:43:54,310 --> 00:43:56,850
that sometime during
the month of September

1116
00:43:56,850 --> 00:43:58,920
we're going to come and
look at your premises.

1117
00:43:58,920 --> 00:44:01,610
No, that's not sufficient, okay?

1118
00:44:01,610 --> 00:44:03,870
It has to be through
reasonable times of the day.

1119
00:44:03,870 --> 00:44:05,350
The JP's always say, well Klaus,

1120
00:44:05,350 --> 00:44:06,780
why didn't you just put eight to five

1121
00:44:06,780 --> 00:44:08,270
in there, it'd be a lot simpler.

1122
00:44:08,270 --> 00:44:11,020
Well, that doesn't cover the person

1123
00:44:11,020 --> 00:44:13,170
that come home at 8:00
o'clock in the morning

1124
00:44:13,170 --> 00:44:14,070
'cause they worked all night,

1125
00:44:14,070 --> 00:44:15,570
so reasonable times of the day,

1126
00:44:15,570 --> 00:44:18,223
reasonable people can figure that out.

1127
00:44:19,268 --> 00:44:21,530
There is of course
exceptions for emergencies.

1128
00:44:21,530 --> 00:44:23,110
You may have some situations

1129
00:44:23,110 --> 00:44:24,330
where the landlord just happens,

1130
00:44:24,330 --> 00:44:26,005
if they see water gushing out of the door

1131
00:44:26,005 --> 00:44:27,730
they have a right to go in.

1132
00:44:27,730 --> 00:44:28,930
That's all there is to it

1133
00:44:28,930 --> 00:44:30,237
but in most circumstances

1134
00:44:30,237 --> 00:44:34,390
that's the only right of
access a landlord has.

1135
00:44:34,390 --> 00:44:37,260
And a tenant, we'll get
to that in a minute.

1136
00:44:37,260 --> 00:44:39,640
So then we have unlawful entry,

1137
00:44:39,640 --> 00:44:41,240
clearly prohibited.

1138
00:44:41,240 --> 00:44:45,343
Then we also have unreasonable
lawful entry, okay?

1139
00:44:46,810 --> 00:44:48,870
The unreasonable lawful entry

1140
00:44:48,870 --> 00:44:50,030
would be something like this.

1141
00:44:50,030 --> 00:44:52,357
Again, two tenants or
a landlord and a tenant

1142
00:44:52,357 --> 00:44:54,230
and the houses are a
little bit farther away,

1143
00:44:54,230 --> 00:44:56,580
this is on the north side of Missoula,

1144
00:44:56,580 --> 00:44:58,270
the old railroad houses that they had

1145
00:44:58,270 --> 00:44:59,740
out there for a long time,

1146
00:44:59,740 --> 00:45:02,070
and they're sort of like
opposites of each other,

1147
00:45:02,070 --> 00:45:03,810
there's a stoop on this side

1148
00:45:03,810 --> 00:45:04,897
and a window over there

1149
00:45:04,897 --> 00:45:07,120
and a window here and a stoop over there,

1150
00:45:07,120 --> 00:45:09,130
so just kind of opposites of each other.

1151
00:45:09,130 --> 00:45:11,130
The landlord, and that's all the yard

1152
00:45:11,130 --> 00:45:12,250
is the space in between,

1153
00:45:12,250 --> 00:45:15,190
maybe 25 feet for the kids to play.

1154
00:45:15,190 --> 00:45:16,740
Well, the kids didn't like playing

1155
00:45:16,740 --> 00:45:17,870
'cause they thought the landlord

1156
00:45:17,870 --> 00:45:19,360
was kind of a grumpy old guy,

1157
00:45:19,360 --> 00:45:20,715
he used to live in the house a but moved

1158
00:45:20,715 --> 00:45:22,700
to house b 'cause he didn't want to live

1159
00:45:22,700 --> 00:45:23,920
where his wife used to live

1160
00:45:23,920 --> 00:45:25,380
when he was living with her.

1161
00:45:25,380 --> 00:45:26,963
So just a grumpy old guy.

1162
00:45:27,950 --> 00:45:29,370
Or actually a grumpy young guy,

1163
00:45:29,370 --> 00:45:30,850
now that I say that.

1164
00:45:30,850 --> 00:45:33,380
And he rents this place to a family,

1165
00:45:33,380 --> 00:45:35,180
a husband, wife, and three children,

1166
00:45:36,922 --> 00:45:38,380
and he rents it on what is called

1167
00:45:38,380 --> 00:45:41,170
a term rental agreement, that is the first

1168
00:45:41,170 --> 00:45:42,490
six months of the rental agreement

1169
00:45:42,490 --> 00:45:45,720
is a mini lease, nobody gets out of this

1170
00:45:45,720 --> 00:45:46,950
unless they breach it.

1171
00:45:46,950 --> 00:45:49,100
And then after that it turns into a month

1172
00:45:49,100 --> 00:45:50,590
to month tenancy where either party

1173
00:45:50,590 --> 00:45:52,759
can give a 30 day notice,

1174
00:45:52,759 --> 00:45:55,300
good idea, good practice.

1175
00:45:55,300 --> 00:45:57,070
But he rents it furnished

1176
00:45:57,070 --> 00:45:58,560
and these kids have nowhere else to play

1177
00:45:58,560 --> 00:46:00,520
and he rents it furnished
and there's a big

1178
00:46:00,520 --> 00:46:03,210
dining room table by the window here

1179
00:46:03,210 --> 00:46:05,980
and the kids run 'round and around

1180
00:46:05,980 --> 00:46:07,620
and around that table

1181
00:46:07,620 --> 00:46:10,170
and it drives the landlord nuts.

1182
00:46:10,170 --> 00:46:13,260
It's his rug obviously under that table

1183
00:46:13,260 --> 00:46:15,890
and he just can't stand it.

1184
00:46:15,890 --> 00:46:18,585
By the end of the fourth month,

1185
00:46:18,585 --> 00:46:19,630
the beginning of the fifth month,

1186
00:46:19,630 --> 00:46:22,119
he gives them notice that their six month

1187
00:46:22,119 --> 00:46:25,300
term rental agreement will not be renewed,

1188
00:46:25,300 --> 00:46:27,527
okay, so he's gonna terminate it

1189
00:46:27,527 --> 00:46:29,100
and of course they're upset.

1190
00:46:29,100 --> 00:46:30,618
They're upset because they've had

1191
00:46:30,618 --> 00:46:33,340
all of their utilities in their name,

1192
00:46:33,340 --> 00:46:36,360
everything, their schools are registered,

1193
00:46:36,360 --> 00:46:37,740
all the things you would normally do

1194
00:46:37,740 --> 00:46:39,640
when you move into a place, they're upset.

1195
00:46:39,640 --> 00:46:41,380
But that wasn't good
enough for the landlord

1196
00:46:41,380 --> 00:46:44,480
because do the kids know
about the termination?

1197
00:46:44,480 --> 00:46:46,537
No, they kept playing round and round

1198
00:46:46,537 --> 00:46:48,560
and round and it still drove him nuts.

1199
00:46:48,560 --> 00:46:51,320
So, then for the last two weeks

1200
00:46:51,320 --> 00:46:54,740
he gave 24 hours notice every 24 hours

1201
00:46:54,740 --> 00:46:57,110
that he was going to inspect the premises.

1202
00:46:57,110 --> 00:46:59,494
Okay, and then he stood on his stoop

1203
00:46:59,494 --> 00:47:02,480
and watched with
binoculars in the windows.

1204
00:47:02,480 --> 00:47:04,923
I told that landlord he
needed to find a hobby.

1205
00:47:06,000 --> 00:47:07,660
Do something else.

1206
00:47:07,660 --> 00:47:08,880
It's the first time that we had

1207
00:47:08,880 --> 00:47:10,970
to get a restraining order for a landlord

1208
00:47:10,970 --> 00:47:14,560
using lawful entry, yeah, 24 hours notice,

1209
00:47:14,560 --> 00:47:16,660
but he used it in an unreasonable manner

1210
00:47:16,660 --> 00:47:17,660
and we got a restraining order

1211
00:47:17,660 --> 00:47:20,603
to prohibit him from doing that, okay.

1212
00:47:21,475 --> 00:47:23,000
And then there are of course consequences

1213
00:47:23,000 --> 00:47:26,420
for a tenant of refusal to allow access.

1214
00:47:26,420 --> 00:47:28,760
Dear tenant, you remember when we first

1215
00:47:28,760 --> 00:47:31,670
started the tenancy, I
told you I was looking

1216
00:47:31,670 --> 00:47:32,620
for somebody to buy it,

1217
00:47:32,620 --> 00:47:34,350
Ron Realtor's gonna call ya

1218
00:47:34,350 --> 00:47:35,540
and make some arrangements.

1219
00:47:35,540 --> 00:47:36,870
So Ron calls and says,

1220
00:47:36,870 --> 00:47:38,280
hey how 'bout next Monday night?

1221
00:47:38,280 --> 00:47:41,430
Oh no, Monday Football, can't do that.

1222
00:47:41,430 --> 00:47:42,339
Wednesday then?

1223
00:47:42,339 --> 00:47:43,690
Oh that's bowling night can't do it then.

1224
00:47:43,690 --> 00:47:46,150
Saturday, that's a Griz game, no no.

1225
00:47:46,150 --> 00:47:48,940
And it's constant
excuses, one after another

1226
00:47:48,940 --> 00:47:50,800
and he won't allow access.

1227
00:47:50,800 --> 00:47:52,870
In the circumstance
like that let's imagine

1228
00:47:52,870 --> 00:47:55,590
that it gets so bad that the landlord

1229
00:47:55,590 --> 00:47:58,260
loses a sale in this market.

1230
00:47:58,260 --> 00:48:01,100
So if he loses the sale it is possible

1231
00:48:01,100 --> 00:48:03,130
that one of the consequences

1232
00:48:03,130 --> 00:48:05,130
is that the tenant would owe damages

1233
00:48:05,130 --> 00:48:07,190
for that refusal to allow access.

1234
00:48:07,190 --> 00:48:08,670
Another option for the landlord

1235
00:48:08,670 --> 00:48:10,100
is actually to go to court

1236
00:48:10,100 --> 00:48:12,700
and get a, what is it, in a sense

1237
00:48:12,700 --> 00:48:15,210
a mandatory injunction to compel

1238
00:48:15,210 --> 00:48:17,310
access to the premises.

1239
00:48:17,310 --> 00:48:22,310
So, so now let's talk
about the noncompliance.

1240
00:48:22,830 --> 00:48:25,523
What happens when something goes wrong?

1241
00:48:25,523 --> 00:48:28,260
So a landlord, this is the noncompliance

1242
00:48:28,260 --> 00:48:30,260
by a landlord first let's do this.

1243
00:48:30,260 --> 00:48:32,600
Again, there's noncompliance
by a tenant as well.

1244
00:48:32,600 --> 00:48:35,720
What can a landlord do
when a tenant isn't,

1245
00:48:35,720 --> 00:48:36,617
pardon me, what can a tenant do

1246
00:48:36,617 --> 00:48:39,890
when a landlord is noncompliant?

1247
00:48:39,890 --> 00:48:43,140
A landlord can be given
notice by the tenant

1248
00:48:43,140 --> 00:48:45,320
to terminate the rental
agreement in 30 days

1249
00:48:45,320 --> 00:48:47,950
if the breach isn't remedied in 14 days

1250
00:48:47,950 --> 00:48:50,050
unless it's remediable in some ways.

1251
00:48:50,050 --> 00:48:53,413
So, dear landlord my
water heater doesn't work.

1252
00:48:55,430 --> 00:48:56,760
Our rental agreement's gonna terminate

1253
00:48:56,760 --> 00:48:58,933
in 30 days if you don't fix it in 14.

1254
00:48:59,980 --> 00:49:02,500
Big deal, you're still stuck without water

1255
00:49:02,500 --> 00:49:04,247
at least for 14 days if the landlord

1256
00:49:04,247 --> 00:49:06,930
doesn't do anything under
those circumstances.

1257
00:49:06,930 --> 00:49:09,810
So, JP's ask all the
time, especially new ones,

1258
00:49:09,810 --> 00:49:10,650
why is that in there?

1259
00:49:10,650 --> 00:49:11,830
What good does it do?

1260
00:49:11,830 --> 00:49:13,670
Well it's to avoid the situations

1261
00:49:13,670 --> 00:49:15,970
like Summers versus Crestview

1262
00:49:15,970 --> 00:49:17,360
where the landlord tried to hold 'em

1263
00:49:17,360 --> 00:49:19,850
responsible for the remaining 10 months

1264
00:49:19,850 --> 00:49:22,060
of the lease agreement.

1265
00:49:22,060 --> 00:49:24,960
So that's what that one is basically for.

1266
00:49:24,960 --> 00:49:27,390
Notice that the second option there

1267
00:49:27,390 --> 00:49:29,780
is you can terminate in 14 days

1268
00:49:29,780 --> 00:49:31,780
if the same breach occurred

1269
00:49:31,780 --> 00:49:32,740
in the last six months.

1270
00:49:32,740 --> 00:49:34,710
So, dear landlord you didn't fix

1271
00:49:34,710 --> 00:49:36,980
what you was supposed to fix the last time

1272
00:49:36,980 --> 00:49:40,440
or you did try to make a
fix on the water heater,

1273
00:49:40,440 --> 00:49:43,480
it didn't work, here we are again.

1274
00:49:43,480 --> 00:49:46,400
So, I'm giving you 14 days notice

1275
00:49:46,400 --> 00:49:47,860
and you'll notice there's no opportunity

1276
00:49:47,860 --> 00:49:50,053
to correct the defect in that situation.

1277
00:49:51,100 --> 00:49:53,260
Okay, tenants have the right to use

1278
00:49:53,260 --> 00:49:54,913
what is called Repair and Deduct.

1279
00:49:55,770 --> 00:49:59,550
That is, dear landlord please fix it.

1280
00:49:59,550 --> 00:50:01,690
If you don't fix it in a reasonable

1281
00:50:01,690 --> 00:50:04,610
amount of time I'll get it repaired myself

1282
00:50:04,610 --> 00:50:05,810
and deduct it from the rent.

1283
00:50:05,810 --> 00:50:07,340
There are some conditions there.

1284
00:50:07,340 --> 00:50:08,870
One is the landlord has to have

1285
00:50:08,870 --> 00:50:12,290
the opportunity to repair.

1286
00:50:12,290 --> 00:50:15,010
Has to have notice and
the opportunity to repair.

1287
00:50:15,010 --> 00:50:18,170
And then it has to actually

1288
00:50:18,170 --> 00:50:20,920
be deducted from the rent payment, okay.

1289
00:50:20,920 --> 00:50:23,230
So, I can't just spend
it on something else.

1290
00:50:23,230 --> 00:50:25,440
Dear landlord, if you
don't fix the water heater

1291
00:50:25,440 --> 00:50:27,160
within a reasonable time,

1292
00:50:27,160 --> 00:50:28,700
so let's take a gauge of that.

1293
00:50:28,700 --> 00:50:29,883
All of you are renters?

1294
00:50:31,520 --> 00:50:32,628
If your water heater goes out

1295
00:50:32,628 --> 00:50:34,780
what is a reasonable amount of time

1296
00:50:34,780 --> 00:50:37,430
that you would go without water?

1297
00:50:37,430 --> 00:50:38,760
Hot water, pardon me.

1298
00:50:38,760 --> 00:50:39,653
Couple days.

1299
00:50:41,210 --> 00:50:43,000
-Yeah, like two days maybe.
-Okay.

1300
00:50:43,000 --> 00:50:44,350
-Can't take a shower.
-Okay.

1301
00:50:44,350 --> 00:50:46,970
When I asked the JP's in the State,

1302
00:50:46,970 --> 00:50:47,960
when I do their training,

1303
00:50:47,960 --> 00:50:51,050
126 if we count the Municipal Judges,

1304
00:50:51,050 --> 00:50:54,690
none of them will give
longer than 24 hours

1305
00:50:54,690 --> 00:50:56,930
unless it's some kind of an emergency

1306
00:50:56,930 --> 00:50:59,210
like Labor Day Weekend
or something like that.

1307
00:50:59,210 --> 00:51:00,330
That would be an exception

1308
00:51:00,330 --> 00:51:01,650
but all other circumstances

1309
00:51:01,650 --> 00:51:02,870
they're saying, no matter where you live

1310
00:51:02,870 --> 00:51:05,230
in the state you can get an essential

1311
00:51:05,230 --> 00:51:07,840
service like that repaired in 24 hours

1312
00:51:07,840 --> 00:51:10,240
and they expect landlord's to do that.

1313
00:51:10,240 --> 00:51:13,700
So, there we've set the
standard essentially

1314
00:51:13,700 --> 00:51:15,463
as to what JP's will bear.

1315
00:51:16,940 --> 00:51:19,390
So, there are other situations

1316
00:51:19,390 --> 00:51:21,911
where a landlord may simply decide

1317
00:51:21,911 --> 00:51:25,550
that they will fail to supply

1318
00:51:25,550 --> 00:51:28,210
reasonable services, essential services.

1319
00:51:28,210 --> 00:51:29,340
We have those all the time

1320
00:51:29,340 --> 00:51:32,110
and the classic example is the landlord

1321
00:51:32,110 --> 00:51:34,660
goes to the Justice Court and say,

1322
00:51:34,660 --> 00:51:36,580
I want to get these tenants out.

1323
00:51:36,580 --> 00:51:38,020
Can I get an order from the court today?

1324
00:51:38,020 --> 00:51:39,448
No, you can't.

1325
00:51:39,448 --> 00:51:40,281
What do you mean I can't?

1326
00:51:40,281 --> 00:51:41,680
Well you got to use due process, you know.

1327
00:51:41,680 --> 00:51:43,400
You got to serve somebody.

1328
00:51:43,400 --> 00:51:44,780
Even Bob Dylan knew that.

1329
00:51:44,780 --> 00:51:47,800
So, you got to serve the person

1330
00:51:47,800 --> 00:51:49,510
with a complaint and the complaint

1331
00:51:49,510 --> 00:51:52,280
has to be specific and it has to meet,

1332
00:51:52,280 --> 00:51:53,339
well how long is that gonna take?

1333
00:51:53,339 --> 00:51:54,910
Well, you know, how long will it

1334
00:51:54,910 --> 00:51:55,930
take you to write one?

1335
00:51:55,930 --> 00:51:57,280
I'll do it now, fill in the blanks,

1336
00:51:57,280 --> 00:51:58,113
you know that kind of thing.

1337
00:51:58,113 --> 00:51:58,946
And then what?

1338
00:51:58,946 --> 00:51:59,820
Got to have 'em served.

1339
00:51:59,820 --> 00:52:01,323
Okay, how long will that take?

1340
00:52:01,323 --> 00:52:04,865
And as the clerk is explaining the process

1341
00:52:04,865 --> 00:52:07,480
the landlord says essentially,

1342
00:52:07,480 --> 00:52:09,357
that's sounds like it's
gonna take a while.

1343
00:52:09,357 --> 00:52:12,140
Yes it will, you got
to follow due process.

1344
00:52:12,140 --> 00:52:14,492
And the landlord leaves saying,

1345
00:52:14,492 --> 00:52:16,453
I'll just go turn off their water.

1346
00:52:17,880 --> 00:52:19,900
That's when you get to that essential

1347
00:52:19,900 --> 00:52:23,020
services situation and
you have to in your own

1348
00:52:23,020 --> 00:52:25,253
mind decide what is an essential service.

1349
00:52:26,600 --> 00:52:29,610
If I moved into a place
and I've always had

1350
00:52:29,610 --> 00:52:33,890
a washing machine, or
let's make it different,

1351
00:52:33,890 --> 00:52:36,977
a dishwasher and it goes bad

1352
00:52:36,977 --> 00:52:37,847
and the landlord says,

1353
00:52:37,847 --> 00:52:38,960
well, I'm just not gonna repair it.

1354
00:52:38,960 --> 00:52:40,830
You'll have to wash it by hand.

1355
00:52:40,830 --> 00:52:42,120
Is that an essential service?

1356
00:52:42,120 --> 00:52:43,490
I'll let you think about that.

1357
00:52:43,490 --> 00:52:46,040
So, what can a tenant do when something

1358
00:52:46,040 --> 00:52:48,060
like the water heater goes out?

1359
00:52:48,060 --> 00:52:50,050
They can procure their own services

1360
00:52:50,050 --> 00:52:51,120
and then deduct the cost.

1361
00:52:51,120 --> 00:52:53,080
Well, not much you can do

1362
00:52:53,080 --> 00:52:55,733
about a hot water heater, boil your water.

1363
00:52:57,290 --> 00:52:59,100
Something else.

1364
00:52:59,100 --> 00:53:04,100
But an easier example
is probably a furnace.

1365
00:53:04,360 --> 00:53:06,780
The gas furnace goes out
and the tenant goes out

1366
00:53:06,780 --> 00:53:09,110
and buys a bunch of little plug in heaters

1367
00:53:09,110 --> 00:53:10,260
to put around the place.

1368
00:53:10,260 --> 00:53:14,850
I can deduct that extra
cost from my rent, okay?

1369
00:53:14,850 --> 00:53:18,800
I can recover damages if I lost stuff

1370
00:53:18,800 --> 00:53:21,150
as a result of that, maybe flooding

1371
00:53:21,150 --> 00:53:22,820
or something like that.

1372
00:53:22,820 --> 00:53:25,030
Or I can procure a substitute housing.

1373
00:53:25,030 --> 00:53:27,700
Some of my tenants tell me, ask me things

1374
00:53:27,700 --> 00:53:29,920
like, oh do you mean I can go live

1375
00:53:29,920 --> 00:53:30,950
in the Holiday Inn?

1376
00:53:30,950 --> 00:53:33,570
Well, yes you can but
you're gonna have to pay

1377
00:53:33,570 --> 00:53:36,150
the Holiday Inn and
then you aren't required

1378
00:53:36,150 --> 00:53:37,657
to pay your rent but you're not

1379
00:53:37,657 --> 00:53:40,420
gonna get a Holiday Inn for a month

1380
00:53:40,420 --> 00:53:42,840
for the same amount so that becomes

1381
00:53:42,840 --> 00:53:44,600
your measure of damages
and you'll probably

1382
00:53:44,600 --> 00:53:46,160
end up having to sue the tenant

1383
00:53:46,160 --> 00:53:48,640
but notice most
importantly that the tenant

1384
00:53:48,640 --> 00:53:50,590
must give notice and the landlord

1385
00:53:50,590 --> 00:53:52,040
has to have a reasonable opportunity

1386
00:53:52,040 --> 00:53:53,370
to correct the defect.

1387
00:53:53,370 --> 00:53:55,340
That's a serious problem we have here

1388
00:53:55,340 --> 00:53:58,113
with property managers,
here's a good example.

1389
00:53:59,560 --> 00:54:01,387
Tenant is living in East Missoula,

1390
00:54:01,387 --> 00:54:03,360
was a law student as I recall,

1391
00:54:03,360 --> 00:54:08,123
and one winter night,

1392
00:54:09,170 --> 00:54:11,790
it's both sleeting and hailing

1393
00:54:11,790 --> 00:54:13,790
and rainy and it's
miserable and it's windy

1394
00:54:13,790 --> 00:54:15,330
and the Hellgate winds are coming up

1395
00:54:15,330 --> 00:54:18,020
and she's sitting there
talking with a friend

1396
00:54:18,020 --> 00:54:21,460
and her front window as big as this screen

1397
00:54:21,460 --> 00:54:23,793
just literally fell out.

1398
00:54:24,930 --> 00:54:26,640
And suddenly the water is gushing

1399
00:54:26,640 --> 00:54:28,020
in over her stereo equipment

1400
00:54:28,020 --> 00:54:29,190
and so on, she calls the landlord

1401
00:54:29,190 --> 00:54:31,940
and the landlord, it's about 11:00 o'clock

1402
00:54:31,940 --> 00:54:32,773
at night and the landlord says,

1403
00:54:32,773 --> 00:54:34,180
do you know what time it is?

1404
00:54:34,180 --> 00:54:36,801
Yeah, it's 11:00 o'clock but do you know,

1405
00:54:36,801 --> 00:54:38,250
-(click)
-they just hung up.

1406
00:54:38,250 --> 00:54:39,563
She tries again, click.

1407
00:54:41,170 --> 00:54:42,850
You know the rules says the tenant

1408
00:54:42,850 --> 00:54:44,265
to the landlord the next day.

1409
00:54:44,265 --> 00:54:46,733
You can only call between these hours.

1410
00:54:48,490 --> 00:54:49,490
And you'll be charged.

1411
00:54:49,490 --> 00:54:52,480
He actually got charged $100 for that post

1412
00:54:52,480 --> 00:54:55,040
10:00 p.m. or 11:00 p.m. call.

1413
00:54:55,040 --> 00:54:59,290
So, out of state landlord's
are another issue

1414
00:54:59,290 --> 00:55:01,270
that we have, how do you give notice

1415
00:55:01,270 --> 00:55:03,090
in an emergency situation?

1416
00:55:03,090 --> 00:55:04,930
Landlord's need to anticipate that.

1417
00:55:04,930 --> 00:55:06,860
That's obviously, the landlord

1418
00:55:06,860 --> 00:55:08,780
ended up having to pay for that person's

1419
00:55:08,780 --> 00:55:11,050
damages for the stuff that was flooded

1420
00:55:11,050 --> 00:55:13,082
but again that's just simply not

1421
00:55:13,082 --> 00:55:16,203
a reasonable way to get notice.

1422
00:55:17,190 --> 00:55:19,100
All right, now we've talked about what

1423
00:55:19,100 --> 00:55:21,720
a tenant can do if the
landlord doesn't comply,

1424
00:55:21,720 --> 00:55:23,030
what can the landlord do

1425
00:55:23,030 --> 00:55:25,150
if the tenant doesn't comply?

1426
00:55:25,150 --> 00:55:26,690
Notice the differences.

1427
00:55:26,690 --> 00:55:28,680
14 days written notice for the breach

1428
00:55:28,680 --> 00:55:30,650
plus the opportunity to remedy.

1429
00:55:30,650 --> 00:55:32,550
Notice there's no 30 and then 14.

1430
00:55:32,550 --> 00:55:34,200
It's 14 days notice.

1431
00:55:34,200 --> 00:55:36,370
So, dear tenant you've had far too many

1432
00:55:36,370 --> 00:55:38,650
loud parties after 10:00 p.m.,

1433
00:55:38,650 --> 00:55:40,930
this is your 14 days notice to stop

1434
00:55:40,930 --> 00:55:43,980
or we'll terminate the rental agreement.

1435
00:55:43,980 --> 00:55:46,450
So what does that mean
in Missoula, Montana?

1436
00:55:46,450 --> 00:55:48,380
14 more days of loud parties.

1437
00:55:48,380 --> 00:55:49,530
No, not really.

1438
00:55:49,530 --> 00:55:52,224
You got to stop.

1439
00:55:52,224 --> 00:55:54,540
That opportunity to correct the defect

1440
00:55:54,540 --> 00:55:56,040
is there but what happens

1441
00:55:56,040 --> 00:55:58,133
then if it occurs again?

1442
00:55:59,410 --> 00:56:01,410
If the landlord has properly documented

1443
00:56:01,410 --> 00:56:04,232
that, five days notice and no opportunity

1444
00:56:04,232 --> 00:56:06,280
correct the defect if it occurred

1445
00:56:06,280 --> 00:56:07,430
in the last six months.

1446
00:56:08,560 --> 00:56:11,410
There are very few opportunities

1447
00:56:11,410 --> 00:56:15,390
to shorten a termination
notice in the MRLTA.

1448
00:56:15,390 --> 00:56:18,580
One of those, there
are three specifically,

1449
00:56:18,580 --> 00:56:20,160
is the failure to pay rent.

1450
00:56:20,160 --> 00:56:24,410
Dear tenant, you have three days to pay up

1451
00:56:24,410 --> 00:56:26,500
or the rental agreement will terminate.

1452
00:56:26,500 --> 00:56:28,350
Usually it's a call for a landlord

1453
00:56:28,350 --> 00:56:30,190
to say, pay up or get out

1454
00:56:30,190 --> 00:56:31,920
kind of notice is what they say.

1455
00:56:31,920 --> 00:56:33,480
And that's not really accurate.

1456
00:56:33,480 --> 00:56:34,930
It's not pay up or get out.

1457
00:56:34,930 --> 00:56:35,763
Some tenants say, well if I get out

1458
00:56:35,763 --> 00:56:37,020
I don't have to pay?

1459
00:56:37,020 --> 00:56:39,330
No, that's not it at all.

1460
00:56:39,330 --> 00:56:41,870
You have that to correct the defect

1461
00:56:41,870 --> 00:56:43,470
so you have that opportunity.

1462
00:56:43,470 --> 00:56:45,570
That one's pretty clear, pretty reasonable

1463
00:56:46,620 --> 00:56:47,910
under most circumstances.

1464
00:56:47,910 --> 00:56:49,700
Then there's the unauthorized pet.

1465
00:56:49,700 --> 00:56:50,890
That implies of course

1466
00:56:50,890 --> 00:56:53,270
that there's a no pet rule.

1467
00:56:53,270 --> 00:56:55,750
So, the landlord walks by one day

1468
00:56:55,750 --> 00:56:57,730
and sees Snuffy sitting on window ledge

1469
00:56:57,730 --> 00:56:59,264
inside the apartment and says,

1470
00:56:59,264 --> 00:57:01,610
dear tenant, I see you
have an unauthorized pet.

1471
00:57:01,610 --> 00:57:03,750
You have three days to get rid of Snuffy

1472
00:57:03,750 --> 00:57:05,120
or the rental agreement will terminate.

1473
00:57:05,120 --> 00:57:06,764
If they get rid of Snuffy

1474
00:57:06,764 --> 00:57:09,100
the rental agreement does not terminate,

1475
00:57:09,100 --> 00:57:11,630
they correct the defect but otherwise,

1476
00:57:11,630 --> 00:57:14,370
some landlords have gotten both a,

1477
00:57:14,370 --> 00:57:16,880
to the point of a in a rental agreement

1478
00:57:16,880 --> 00:57:18,340
as opposed to a lease that they give

1479
00:57:18,340 --> 00:57:21,000
a three day and a 30 day at the same time.

1480
00:57:21,000 --> 00:57:24,320
You have breached the rental agreement,

1481
00:57:24,320 --> 00:57:25,180
here's your three day notice

1482
00:57:25,180 --> 00:57:27,750
to get rid of Snuffy, if you don't

1483
00:57:27,750 --> 00:57:29,220
our rental agreement will terminate

1484
00:57:29,220 --> 00:57:32,720
regardless even if you do in 30 days,

1485
00:57:32,720 --> 00:57:34,120
they won't need a reason for that one.

1486
00:57:34,120 --> 00:57:36,590
And then they have the
unauthorized person.

1487
00:57:36,590 --> 00:57:38,150
I'm surprised, I don't remember

1488
00:57:38,150 --> 00:57:39,720
when the unauthorized person part

1489
00:57:39,720 --> 00:57:42,850
was added to the code anymore

1490
00:57:42,850 --> 00:57:45,323
but it was added later.

1491
00:57:46,220 --> 00:57:49,020
So, what is an unauthorized person?

1492
00:57:49,020 --> 00:57:52,250
I had a case out of Glendive or Glasgow,

1493
00:57:52,250 --> 00:57:54,660
where the old Air Force Base used to be,

1494
00:57:54,660 --> 00:57:58,530
where a landlord was
running a mobile home court

1495
00:57:58,530 --> 00:58:00,100
and they owned the mobile home.

1496
00:58:00,100 --> 00:58:01,670
Remember they own the mobile home

1497
00:58:01,670 --> 00:58:03,520
and they were just renting the pad

1498
00:58:03,520 --> 00:58:05,730
and their son came home from,

1499
00:58:05,730 --> 00:58:07,270
at that time Afghanistan,

1500
00:58:07,270 --> 00:58:09,710
and had some serious post traumatic

1501
00:58:09,710 --> 00:58:13,170
stress issues when he came back,

1502
00:58:13,170 --> 00:58:15,380
and was not able to find a job

1503
00:58:15,380 --> 00:58:17,240
around the area so the parents,

1504
00:58:17,240 --> 00:58:18,502
doing what any parent would do

1505
00:58:18,502 --> 00:58:22,370
for their 22 year old
problem son at this point,

1506
00:58:22,370 --> 00:58:23,470
they let him live there.

1507
00:58:23,470 --> 00:58:25,320
The landlord terminated
the rental agreement

1508
00:58:25,320 --> 00:58:28,110
or tried to for having
an unauthorized person

1509
00:58:28,110 --> 00:58:30,760
in their own home, okay?

1510
00:58:30,760 --> 00:58:32,520
Does that mean I can't
have my mother-in-law

1511
00:58:32,520 --> 00:58:34,630
come and stay with me for a while?

1512
00:58:34,630 --> 00:58:36,410
If they put a two week limit on it

1513
00:58:36,410 --> 00:58:39,900
am I going to lose the
right to stay in my home?

1514
00:58:39,900 --> 00:58:41,550
Might be different for an apartment

1515
00:58:41,550 --> 00:58:42,790
but I really have some problems

1516
00:58:42,790 --> 00:58:45,400
with that and I've only seen maybe 10%

1517
00:58:45,400 --> 00:58:47,680
of the rental agreements around here

1518
00:58:47,680 --> 00:58:50,440
specify who the authorized persons are.

1519
00:58:50,440 --> 00:58:52,950
Obviously the people of the family

1520
00:58:53,870 --> 00:58:56,920
but who beyond that and where does it

1521
00:58:56,920 --> 00:58:59,260
cross the line between a guest

1522
00:58:59,260 --> 00:59:01,033
and an unauthorized person?

1523
00:59:01,880 --> 00:59:04,230
Don't know, we don't have any case law.

1524
00:59:04,230 --> 00:59:05,920
Three days for destroying, damaging,

1525
00:59:05,920 --> 00:59:08,110
impairing or removing
part of the premises.

1526
00:59:08,110 --> 00:59:10,070
Notice this one has no opportunity

1527
00:59:10,070 --> 00:59:11,547
to correct the defect.

1528
00:59:11,547 --> 00:59:13,140
And it's sort of like the case

1529
00:59:13,140 --> 00:59:15,240
that you and I were talking about Richard.

1530
00:59:17,212 --> 00:59:19,190
If I destroy it you can imagine

1531
00:59:19,190 --> 00:59:20,530
if we had it the other way.

1532
00:59:20,530 --> 00:59:22,730
Dear tenant, you've been
destroying my place.

1533
00:59:22,730 --> 00:59:24,090
Please stop within three days

1534
00:59:24,090 --> 00:59:25,970
or our rental agreement will terminate.

1535
00:59:25,970 --> 00:59:26,803
Doesn't make sense.

1536
00:59:26,803 --> 00:59:28,696
No, you got to get out.

1537
00:59:28,696 --> 00:59:31,880
You will be out no
matter what you do, okay?

1538
00:59:31,880 --> 00:59:36,120
And it's not just merely
doing it on purpose,

1539
00:59:36,120 --> 00:59:38,340
it could even be negligent.

1540
00:59:38,340 --> 00:59:40,140
There's no culpability.

1541
00:59:40,140 --> 00:59:42,630
There's no mens rea in there, okay?

1542
00:59:42,630 --> 00:59:46,280
So, Tina Tenant is in
her very first apartment.

1543
00:59:46,280 --> 00:59:47,790
She just turned 18.

1544
00:59:47,790 --> 00:59:49,970
She has Bobby Boyfriend over to celebrate

1545
00:59:49,970 --> 00:59:53,090
her new independence and they decide

1546
00:59:53,090 --> 00:59:55,130
they're gonna have a barbecue.

1547
00:59:55,130 --> 00:59:56,543
She doesn't own a barbecue.

1548
00:59:57,470 --> 00:59:59,370
Crafty Bobby says, no problem.

1549
00:59:59,370 --> 01:00:02,160
I'll make us something to use.

1550
01:00:02,160 --> 01:00:03,970
He grabs a shelf out of one

1551
01:00:03,970 --> 01:00:06,410
of the kitchen shelves,

1552
01:00:06,410 --> 01:00:09,170
wraps it in 60 layers of aluminum foil,

1553
01:00:09,170 --> 01:00:11,230
lines up nine charcoal briquettes,

1554
01:00:11,230 --> 01:00:13,010
puts a little lighter fluid on there,

1555
01:00:13,010 --> 01:00:15,740
takes the grate out of the stove,

1556
01:00:15,740 --> 01:00:18,470
puts it on top, instant Hibachi.

1557
01:00:18,470 --> 01:00:19,729
And they have their little hamburgers

1558
01:00:19,729 --> 01:00:22,300
and it's really kind of cute, you know?

1559
01:00:22,300 --> 01:00:24,910
And easy clean up just
like they show on TV.

1560
01:00:24,910 --> 01:00:26,970
Just wraps all the foil up in the,

1561
01:00:26,970 --> 01:00:29,270
all of the charcoal and the drippings,

1562
01:00:29,270 --> 01:00:31,350
they're all gone except

1563
01:00:31,350 --> 01:00:33,520
the board's a little charred.

1564
01:00:33,520 --> 01:00:34,910
No problem says Bobby.

1565
01:00:34,910 --> 01:00:37,790
We'll just take that, put it down here,

1566
01:00:37,790 --> 01:00:40,090
take the one from down
here and put it up there.

1567
01:00:40,090 --> 01:00:41,870
Not a problem, you can't even see it.

1568
01:00:41,870 --> 01:00:44,870
Okay, would have gone for months

1569
01:00:44,870 --> 01:00:48,042
this way but for the
fact that after 90 days

1570
01:00:48,042 --> 01:00:51,041
Linda Landlord always inspected her place.

1571
01:00:51,041 --> 01:00:54,390
So she decides to go
in and she's impressed.

1572
01:00:54,390 --> 01:00:56,600
How Tina, for a first time tenant,

1573
01:00:56,600 --> 01:00:58,560
has really taken care of the place.

1574
01:00:58,560 --> 01:01:00,660
She comments on it, oh it's so nice,

1575
01:01:00,660 --> 01:01:02,176
and as she's going in the kitchen

1576
01:01:02,176 --> 01:01:05,410
she trips a little and drops her pen.

1577
01:01:05,410 --> 01:01:07,900
And as she bends down to pick up her pen

1578
01:01:07,900 --> 01:01:11,350
she sees the underside of that board

1579
01:01:11,350 --> 01:01:13,060
and says, Tina you're outta here!

1580
01:01:13,060 --> 01:01:14,170
Oh I can fix it!

1581
01:01:14,170 --> 01:01:15,420
Too late.

1582
01:01:15,420 --> 01:01:17,440
It's only a dollar and
a half, I can fix it.

1583
01:01:17,440 --> 01:01:18,500
Nope, too late.

1584
01:01:18,500 --> 01:01:20,540
She has destroyed the premises

1585
01:01:20,540 --> 01:01:22,340
and ya can't do that.

1586
01:01:22,340 --> 01:01:24,080
Okay, another example.

1587
01:01:24,080 --> 01:01:27,030
My former dentist, he's retired now

1588
01:01:27,030 --> 01:01:28,360
for several years but when he retired

1589
01:01:28,360 --> 01:01:32,050
he bought some duplexes,
four plexes actually

1590
01:01:32,050 --> 01:01:35,140
and one of them was in an L shape

1591
01:01:35,140 --> 01:01:37,800
and there was two two bedroom apartments

1592
01:01:37,800 --> 01:01:39,500
and two two bedroom apartments like this

1593
01:01:39,500 --> 01:01:41,430
and they were all identical.

1594
01:01:41,430 --> 01:01:44,010
So he had no problem taking

1595
01:01:44,010 --> 01:01:45,300
care of them in that way.

1596
01:01:45,300 --> 01:01:47,800
And he decided to do
a six month inspection

1597
01:01:47,800 --> 01:01:51,610
and he goes in and he is again amazed

1598
01:01:51,610 --> 01:01:53,145
at the care these people have taken

1599
01:01:53,145 --> 01:01:57,000
of apartment a but he just looks around

1600
01:01:57,000 --> 01:02:00,253
and he says, something's
not the same here.

1601
01:02:00,253 --> 01:02:01,370
It just doesn't feel right

1602
01:02:01,370 --> 01:02:03,120
so he decides to come back again

1603
01:02:03,120 --> 01:02:05,490
another day to inspect the water heater

1604
01:02:05,490 --> 01:02:08,230
and when he comes back then he gets it.

1605
01:02:08,230 --> 01:02:12,000
They had built a new
wall in the living room.

1606
01:02:12,000 --> 01:02:13,990
They've taken the dining
room, living room,

1607
01:02:13,990 --> 01:02:16,560
and made such a nice wall,

1608
01:02:16,560 --> 01:02:18,047
they didn't even know it was there.

1609
01:02:18,047 --> 01:02:20,050
It was just beautifully done.

1610
01:02:20,050 --> 01:02:21,720
Obviously a professional job

1611
01:02:21,720 --> 01:02:23,270
and they've turned that two bedroom

1612
01:02:23,270 --> 01:02:24,660
apartment into a three bedroom

1613
01:02:24,660 --> 01:02:26,320
apartment without his consent.

1614
01:02:26,320 --> 01:02:28,483
That's destroying, damaging or defacing.

1615
01:02:29,530 --> 01:02:32,810
Ya can't do that so they have no right,

1616
01:02:32,810 --> 01:02:35,654
he can terminate that rental agreement.

1617
01:02:35,654 --> 01:02:38,417
Don't you think part is
a little bit too big?

1618
01:02:39,320 --> 01:02:40,183
Probably.

1619
01:02:41,170 --> 01:02:44,620
So, what other options
could he have taken?

1620
01:02:44,620 --> 01:02:48,190
He could've said, hmm
I rented this as a two

1621
01:02:48,190 --> 01:02:49,750
bedroom now you have a three bedroom,

1622
01:02:49,750 --> 01:02:51,330
I'm gonna raise your rent for the extra

1623
01:02:51,330 --> 01:02:53,410
bedroom by a proportionate amount.

1624
01:02:53,410 --> 01:02:57,320
If you were paying $600
now, that's another third,

1625
01:02:57,320 --> 01:02:58,900
I'm gonna add a third to that,

1626
01:02:58,900 --> 01:03:00,613
now you're gonna pay $900 a month.

1627
01:03:01,650 --> 01:03:03,410
Okay, other kinds of options

1628
01:03:03,410 --> 01:03:04,780
certainly could, yeah.

1629
01:03:04,780 --> 01:03:07,650
But they did in fact do something

1630
01:03:07,650 --> 01:03:09,090
to which they are not entitled.

1631
01:03:09,090 --> 01:03:10,820
They can't make changes without

1632
01:03:10,820 --> 01:03:11,900
consent of the landlord.

1633
01:03:11,900 --> 01:03:14,300
You can't paint for example.

1634
01:03:14,300 --> 01:03:16,120
What if you as a tenant decide,

1635
01:03:16,120 --> 01:03:19,150
you know I don't really like walls white,

1636
01:03:19,150 --> 01:03:20,713
I'm gonna make 'em all black.

1637
01:03:22,110 --> 01:03:23,430
Some people like that you know.

1638
01:03:23,430 --> 01:03:25,920
Kind of a gothic look,
black and purple all over.

1639
01:03:25,920 --> 01:03:27,340
But ya can't do that without

1640
01:03:27,340 --> 01:03:29,432
the landlord's consent and that you can--

1641
01:03:29,432 --> 01:03:31,190
So that would include,

1642
01:03:31,190 --> 01:03:33,660
put in a small nail in the wall?

1643
01:03:33,660 --> 01:03:35,830
Ah, lots of places,
and we'll get to a case

1644
01:03:35,830 --> 01:03:38,210
on nail holes but lots of places say,

1645
01:03:38,210 --> 01:03:40,633
yeah, no nail holes at all, okay?

1646
01:03:42,500 --> 01:03:45,210
That to me sounds a little
bit too unreasonable.

1647
01:03:45,210 --> 01:03:47,330
Under no circumstances will anything

1648
01:03:47,330 --> 01:03:48,910
be affixed to the walls?

1649
01:03:48,910 --> 01:03:50,583
-Really?
-Who lives like that?

1650
01:03:51,510 --> 01:03:54,550
So, there've got to be
reasonable accommodations.

1651
01:03:54,550 --> 01:03:56,350
Some landlords say no nail holes

1652
01:03:56,350 --> 01:03:59,090
but you can use Command Hooks or whatever,

1653
01:03:59,090 --> 01:04:00,940
something that's removable.

1654
01:04:00,940 --> 01:04:03,890
Or if you make a nail
hole it's gonna cost ya.

1655
01:04:03,890 --> 01:04:05,667
You know, depending on what it is.

1656
01:04:05,667 --> 01:04:07,960
All right, so yeah, you can,

1657
01:04:07,960 --> 01:04:10,880
again, reasonable people
work that stuff out.

1658
01:04:10,880 --> 01:04:12,280
You're not gonna rent to a college

1659
01:04:12,280 --> 01:04:14,090
student that's an Art Major

1660
01:04:14,090 --> 01:04:15,740
and say, you can't hang anything.

1661
01:04:16,730 --> 01:04:19,150
Really, what do reasonable people do?

1662
01:04:19,150 --> 01:04:20,170
They figure out something,

1663
01:04:20,170 --> 01:04:21,560
some way to make that happen.

1664
01:04:21,560 --> 01:04:23,710
And now with these new
Command hook things,

1665
01:04:24,680 --> 01:04:26,420
my folks when they were landlords

1666
01:04:26,420 --> 01:04:30,450
used to actually put a little bag of tools

1667
01:04:30,450 --> 01:04:32,660
into the, used to be a screwdriver,

1668
01:04:32,660 --> 01:04:37,080
a wrench, maybe a mini
hammer and something else.

1669
01:04:37,080 --> 01:04:38,640
Yes they lost them but you can get

1670
01:04:38,640 --> 01:04:41,090
them at the Dollar Store
for four bux, you know?

1671
01:04:41,090 --> 01:04:42,717
What's the big deal when,

1672
01:04:42,717 --> 01:04:47,717
if the sink faucet needs an extra turn

1673
01:04:48,160 --> 01:04:49,430
because it's starting to leak,

1674
01:04:49,430 --> 01:04:52,015
to have the tenant do
that if they don't ruin it

1675
01:04:52,015 --> 01:04:54,920
instead me coming on Thanksgiving weekend.

1676
01:04:54,920 --> 01:04:57,450
That just makes good sense to, again,

1677
01:04:57,450 --> 01:04:59,240
be reasonable about those kind of things.

1678
01:04:59,240 --> 01:05:02,240
So I'm gonna take, buy
a box of Command Hooks

1679
01:05:02,240 --> 01:05:04,000
and give it to my tenants.

1680
01:05:04,000 --> 01:05:06,610
Gonna cost me $12, I'm
certainly gonna make

1681
01:05:06,610 --> 01:05:09,680
more than $12 of profit
from them living there

1682
01:05:09,680 --> 01:05:11,830
and I save myself a whole lot of work

1683
01:05:11,830 --> 01:05:13,683
later on when they move out.

1684
01:05:17,490 --> 01:05:19,750
There are two kinds,

1685
01:05:19,750 --> 01:05:22,920
well, yes, there are
two kinds of termination

1686
01:05:22,920 --> 01:05:25,610
in Montana, residential landlord tenant,

1687
01:05:25,610 --> 01:05:27,842
ordinary termination, I give you 30 days,

1688
01:05:27,842 --> 01:05:30,240
that's an ordinary termination

1689
01:05:30,240 --> 01:05:32,050
and it's amazing to me, I just had

1690
01:05:33,110 --> 01:05:36,960
one landlord say, I
don't, we cannot calculate

1691
01:05:36,960 --> 01:05:39,210
a prorated amount of rent.

1692
01:05:39,210 --> 01:05:40,260
Really?

1693
01:05:40,260 --> 01:05:42,870
If I give you notice on
the 17th of the month

1694
01:05:42,870 --> 01:05:45,500
you can't figure out how much I owe you

1695
01:05:45,500 --> 01:05:47,180
from the 17th to the 17th.

1696
01:05:47,180 --> 01:05:50,080
You divide 30 days into the, I mean,

1697
01:05:50,080 --> 01:05:52,093
really, that shouldn't be hard.

1698
01:05:53,160 --> 01:05:55,183
They are sometimes trying to revert

1699
01:05:55,183 --> 01:05:57,900
almost back into the old way

1700
01:05:57,900 --> 01:05:59,750
where a notice was not effective

1701
01:05:59,750 --> 01:06:01,940
until 30 days after the date

1702
01:06:01,940 --> 01:06:03,090
from which I gave it to you.

1703
01:06:03,090 --> 01:06:06,830
So if I gave you a notice
on the 4th of September

1704
01:06:06,830 --> 01:06:08,410
that it wouldn't become effective

1705
01:06:08,410 --> 01:06:12,270
until the 1st of October
and then would run.

1706
01:06:12,270 --> 01:06:15,015
That was the way it was before 1977

1707
01:06:15,015 --> 01:06:18,215
but not anymore, 30 days is 30 days.

1708
01:06:18,215 --> 01:06:20,350
It doesn't matter what it is

1709
01:06:20,350 --> 01:06:23,980
and landlords can in fact calculate that,

1710
01:06:23,980 --> 01:06:27,350
yes you can do 28 and 31 if you want

1711
01:06:27,350 --> 01:06:30,640
but doesn't really matter,
30 days is 30 days.

1712
01:06:30,640 --> 01:06:32,060
And then there are the other kinds

1713
01:06:32,060 --> 01:06:33,850
of termination which are the terminations

1714
01:06:33,850 --> 01:06:36,410
after noncompliance and
we talked about those.

1715
01:06:36,410 --> 01:06:38,750
Three days and 14 days

1716
01:06:38,750 --> 01:06:40,470
depending on the circumstances, okay?

1717
01:06:40,470 --> 01:06:42,680
Those are the only ways in which

1718
01:06:42,680 --> 01:06:44,150
a rental agreement can be terminated.

1719
01:06:44,150 --> 01:06:45,150
You cannot walk in.

1720
01:06:45,150 --> 01:06:47,100
You can't have the sheriff come over

1721
01:06:47,100 --> 01:06:48,070
to somebody's house and say,

1722
01:06:48,070 --> 01:06:49,530
I gave you notice on Saturday

1723
01:06:49,530 --> 01:06:51,930
to be out in 24 hours, I want you out now.

1724
01:06:51,930 --> 01:06:53,690
That can't happen anymore

1725
01:06:53,690 --> 01:06:55,843
and it happened a lot prior to 1977.

1726
01:06:57,890 --> 01:07:02,240
So, and if the tenant refuses to move,

1727
01:07:02,240 --> 01:07:06,440
the only, again, there's
no eviction in Montana.

1728
01:07:06,440 --> 01:07:08,260
The Action for Possession

1729
01:07:08,260 --> 01:07:09,760
is the legal word of art.

1730
01:07:09,760 --> 01:07:13,250
That's how a judge will look at that.

1731
01:07:13,250 --> 01:07:15,650
It goes to Justice Court
more often than not

1732
01:07:15,650 --> 01:07:17,700
in an Action for Possession.

1733
01:07:17,700 --> 01:07:20,040
And that has an accelerated time period.

1734
01:07:20,040 --> 01:07:22,060
That's a procedural court action,

1735
01:07:22,060 --> 01:07:24,310
there's got to be a
complaint and an answer,

1736
01:07:24,310 --> 01:07:27,800
there's got to be an
answer within 10 days,

1737
01:07:27,800 --> 01:07:29,180
that's kind of a weird one.

1738
01:07:29,180 --> 01:07:32,100
You know why, because
landlords had a good lobby

1739
01:07:32,100 --> 01:07:34,070
and they got it passed in 10 days.

1740
01:07:34,070 --> 01:07:35,930
Every other case in Montana

1741
01:07:35,930 --> 01:07:38,320
it's 20 days or 21, right?

1742
01:07:38,320 --> 01:07:40,040
Civil procedure, 21 days I get

1743
01:07:40,040 --> 01:07:41,900
to answer a complaint, all right.

1744
01:07:41,900 --> 01:07:45,080
But in Justice Court judges for landlord

1745
01:07:45,080 --> 01:07:48,920
tenant only it is 10
days for goodness sakes.

1746
01:07:48,920 --> 01:07:50,353
And then they didn't even believe

1747
01:07:50,353 --> 01:07:51,880
that that was short enough,

1748
01:07:51,880 --> 01:07:54,620
they compelled judges to hold a hearing

1749
01:07:54,620 --> 01:07:57,630
within five business days after that.

1750
01:07:57,630 --> 01:08:00,930
Okay, they don't trust
judges to get it done

1751
01:08:00,930 --> 01:08:02,200
in the right amount of time

1752
01:08:02,200 --> 01:08:04,470
so they passed that one later.

1753
01:08:04,470 --> 01:08:07,350
Okay, retaliatory conduct is prohibited

1754
01:08:07,350 --> 01:08:09,470
and there are specified
sections of the code

1755
01:08:09,470 --> 01:08:11,120
that deal with retaliatory conduct.

1756
01:08:11,120 --> 01:08:12,640
First is a complaint

1757
01:08:12,640 --> 01:08:14,250
of the housing code violation.

1758
01:08:14,250 --> 01:08:17,290
Can you imagine I find that the code

1759
01:08:17,290 --> 01:08:19,560
my light switch doesn't work and I go to

1760
01:08:19,560 --> 01:08:21,667
the Building Inspector and he comes over

1761
01:08:21,667 --> 01:08:23,480
and the Building Inspector says,

1762
01:08:23,480 --> 01:08:25,610
oh yeah, this isn't wired properly.

1763
01:08:25,610 --> 01:08:26,473
And I tell the landlord that

1764
01:08:26,473 --> 01:08:29,180
and the landlord says, you're out.

1765
01:08:29,180 --> 01:08:30,687
You got me in trouble
with the Building Code,

1766
01:08:30,687 --> 01:08:31,870
you're outta here.

1767
01:08:31,870 --> 01:08:32,830
Well, no, of course not.

1768
01:08:32,830 --> 01:08:35,700
You can't complain of your rights

1769
01:08:35,700 --> 01:08:37,893
under the act and then get evicted for it.

1770
01:08:38,920 --> 01:08:41,310
A complaint in writing,
the landlord's duty

1771
01:08:41,310 --> 01:08:43,330
is to maintain the tenancy.

1772
01:08:43,330 --> 01:08:45,530
Such as, again, the water heater

1773
01:08:45,530 --> 01:08:46,560
or something like that.

1774
01:08:46,560 --> 01:08:51,560
You called ABC Plumbing to fix the drain

1775
01:08:51,600 --> 01:08:54,420
and now I'm gonna kick you out for that.

1776
01:08:54,420 --> 01:08:56,330
No, can't do that either.

1777
01:08:56,330 --> 01:08:57,410
And then the last one,

1778
01:08:57,410 --> 01:09:00,770
become a member of a tenant's union.

1779
01:09:00,770 --> 01:09:04,080
And we have cases on that actually.

1780
01:09:04,080 --> 01:09:06,450
People actually tried to do that,

1781
01:09:06,450 --> 01:09:08,910
kick people out because they unionized.

1782
01:09:08,910 --> 01:09:10,950
Okay, and then there's the general

1783
01:09:10,950 --> 01:09:13,640
argument against retaliation

1784
01:09:13,640 --> 01:09:16,797
and that just basically is my own actually

1785
01:09:16,797 --> 01:09:19,510
and all of my reading under the MRLTA

1786
01:09:19,510 --> 01:09:21,950
and the URLTA and there is one

1787
01:09:21,950 --> 01:09:23,300
Federal Court case and I don't remember

1788
01:09:23,300 --> 01:09:25,700
the name, not important, that comes

1789
01:09:25,700 --> 01:09:29,440
out of Iowa in which the
Federal District Court

1790
01:09:29,440 --> 01:09:32,490
dealing with a URLTA provision said,

1791
01:09:32,490 --> 01:09:34,570
while it is true that
you could be kicked out

1792
01:09:34,570 --> 01:09:37,250
for no reason, as it is in Montana,

1793
01:09:37,250 --> 01:09:41,100
you can never be kicked
out for the wrong reason.

1794
01:09:41,100 --> 01:09:42,811
So, that's my general argument

1795
01:09:42,811 --> 01:09:45,540
against retaliatory conduct.

1796
01:09:45,540 --> 01:09:47,792
So, can a tenancy be terminated

1797
01:09:47,792 --> 01:09:49,570
for a wrong reason?

1798
01:09:49,570 --> 01:09:51,500
Well, try this one.

1799
01:09:51,500 --> 01:09:52,420
A law student

1800
01:09:53,550 --> 01:09:56,990
lived in a place where two apartments,

1801
01:09:56,990 --> 01:09:57,823
one on top of the other,

1802
01:09:57,823 --> 01:10:00,260
and the basement had a washer and a dryer

1803
01:10:00,260 --> 01:10:02,060
and she comes downstairs one day

1804
01:10:02,060 --> 01:10:04,210
and there's six inches of standing water

1805
01:10:04,210 --> 01:10:06,350
and the landlord is bailin' the place out

1806
01:10:06,350 --> 01:10:09,050
and he is just angry and swearing

1807
01:10:09,050 --> 01:10:11,270
and vile epithets and everything.

1808
01:10:11,270 --> 01:10:12,918
What's going on, says the tenant.

1809
01:10:12,918 --> 01:10:13,940
Ah you know what's goin' on,

1810
01:10:13,940 --> 01:10:14,900
I've got flooding here,

1811
01:10:14,900 --> 01:10:15,930
I'm dealing with the flooding.

1812
01:10:15,930 --> 01:10:17,490
Well yeah, I meant what's the cause,

1813
01:10:17,490 --> 01:10:18,510
what's the problem?

1814
01:10:18,510 --> 01:10:20,930
He says, well it's that
damn neighbor lady,

1815
01:10:20,930 --> 01:10:22,120
you know, Nosy Neighbor.

1816
01:10:22,120 --> 01:10:23,700
She's got that sprinkling system

1817
01:10:23,700 --> 01:10:25,390
and it always causes this time

1818
01:10:25,390 --> 01:10:26,770
of the year flooding down here.

1819
01:10:26,770 --> 01:10:28,240
Oh, you mean Nosy Neighbor out there?

1820
01:10:28,240 --> 01:10:30,090
She's out there now, says the tenant.

1821
01:10:31,240 --> 01:10:32,410
Oh she's out there now?

1822
01:10:32,410 --> 01:10:34,510
I'm gonna go give her a piece of my mind.

1823
01:10:34,510 --> 01:10:36,290
And the tenant describes this later

1824
01:10:36,290 --> 01:10:37,930
as the landlord going

1825
01:10:37,930 --> 01:10:40,050
into the Nosy Neighbor's face

1826
01:10:40,050 --> 01:10:42,750
and he's right against
her nose essentially

1827
01:10:42,750 --> 01:10:45,200
like a Sergeant in a
Drill Sergeant situation

1828
01:10:45,200 --> 01:10:47,600
and he yells at her at
the top of his lungs

1829
01:10:47,600 --> 01:10:51,430
and with, again, vile epithets and so on.

1830
01:10:51,430 --> 01:10:53,740
So then he comes back in with a smirk

1831
01:10:53,740 --> 01:10:55,950
on his face and the tenant says,

1832
01:10:55,950 --> 01:10:57,940
I don't think you shoulda done that.

1833
01:10:57,940 --> 01:11:01,070
And the landlord says
nothing to her at that time

1834
01:11:01,070 --> 01:11:02,770
but the next day in the mail she gets

1835
01:11:02,770 --> 01:11:04,545
a rental notice for an increase

1836
01:11:04,545 --> 01:11:07,425
of $25 a month on her rent.

1837
01:11:07,425 --> 01:11:10,210
Hmm, okay, she's been there six months,

1838
01:11:10,210 --> 01:11:14,090
doesn't see a real
connection so she lets it go.

1839
01:11:14,090 --> 01:11:15,655
About three weeks later she comes down

1840
01:11:15,655 --> 01:11:18,720
into the basement again
ready to do some laundry

1841
01:11:18,720 --> 01:11:20,110
and there's ABC Plumbing.

1842
01:11:20,110 --> 01:11:21,040
Well, what are ya doin?

1843
01:11:21,040 --> 01:11:23,250
What's goin on, there's
all this flooding again.

1844
01:11:23,250 --> 01:11:24,200
Again, what do ya mean?

1845
01:11:24,200 --> 01:11:26,410
And she explains that
is was just last week

1846
01:11:27,660 --> 01:11:30,610
or three weeks ago and the landlord

1847
01:11:30,610 --> 01:11:32,240
said it was the neighbor lady's problem.

1848
01:11:32,240 --> 01:11:34,837
-Who told you that?
-The landlord says the tenant.

1849
01:11:34,837 --> 01:11:36,910
And the ABC Plumbing says,

1850
01:11:36,910 --> 01:11:39,280
ha, he tells that to all the landlords,

1851
01:11:39,280 --> 01:11:41,420
it's this place, I told
him a long time ago

1852
01:11:41,420 --> 01:11:44,223
the sewer pipes need to be drained.

1853
01:11:45,280 --> 01:11:46,770
Tenant's a little upset a that,

1854
01:11:46,770 --> 01:11:48,180
learning that information.

1855
01:11:48,180 --> 01:11:50,410
She goes down to his place of employment

1856
01:11:50,410 --> 01:11:52,260
where's he's an insurance agent

1857
01:11:52,260 --> 01:11:55,650
and says to him, I think
you owe me an apology.

1858
01:11:55,650 --> 01:11:57,010
He says, I think you owe

1859
01:11:57,010 --> 01:11:59,163
me $75 a month more rent.

1860
01:12:00,020 --> 01:12:01,620
Now that's when she went to see a lawyer.

1861
01:12:01,620 --> 01:12:06,230
Came to see me and Greg Monroe and I,

1862
01:12:06,230 --> 01:12:07,700
Greg finally ended up helping

1863
01:12:07,700 --> 01:12:09,339
her in the Justice Court case.

1864
01:12:09,339 --> 01:12:11,520
And it goes to the Justice Court

1865
01:12:11,520 --> 01:12:15,210
and the judge is asking
the tenant the story

1866
01:12:15,210 --> 01:12:17,150
and she explains it just like I did

1867
01:12:17,150 --> 01:12:19,387
and then the judge turns to the landlord

1868
01:12:19,387 --> 01:12:23,090
and says, you know this really sounds

1869
01:12:23,090 --> 01:12:25,270
like retaliatory conduct.

1870
01:12:25,270 --> 01:12:28,060
And the response from the landlord was,

1871
01:12:28,060 --> 01:12:28,943
damn straight.

1872
01:12:29,820 --> 01:12:32,530
Well he was a little
puzzled by that honesty

1873
01:12:32,530 --> 01:12:34,590
and decided to ask for briefs.

1874
01:12:34,590 --> 01:12:35,940
So which way do you think

1875
01:12:35,940 --> 01:12:39,060
the JP Judge ruled in that case?

1876
01:12:39,060 --> 01:12:40,793
-Tenant.
-Wrong.

1877
01:12:41,640 --> 01:12:44,140
He hadn't gone to enough
of my lectures yet.

1878
01:12:44,140 --> 01:12:45,660
He got unelected at the next

1879
01:12:45,660 --> 01:12:48,090
election incidentally.

1880
01:12:48,090 --> 01:12:49,860
He ruled in favor of the landlord

1881
01:12:49,860 --> 01:12:52,680
saying it wasn't one of the three listed.

1882
01:12:52,680 --> 01:12:53,878
There is no general argument

1883
01:12:53,878 --> 01:12:56,460
against retaliation in Montana.

1884
01:12:56,460 --> 01:12:58,490
He didn't hear that before

1885
01:12:58,490 --> 01:13:00,070
even though we had it in our brief

1886
01:13:00,070 --> 01:13:01,910
and had the same Federal Court case

1887
01:13:01,910 --> 01:13:03,160
in there that I mentioned

1888
01:13:04,470 --> 01:13:08,970
but I think anytime you are being evicted

1889
01:13:08,970 --> 01:13:10,990
for what you are doing right,

1890
01:13:10,990 --> 01:13:13,620
or the rental agreement being terminated,

1891
01:13:13,620 --> 01:13:16,220
you probably have a pretty good flow

1892
01:13:16,220 --> 01:13:18,810
and most of the JP's understand

1893
01:13:18,810 --> 01:13:20,880
that that's suspicious at best

1894
01:13:20,880 --> 01:13:22,410
and more likely than not

1895
01:13:22,410 --> 01:13:26,310
is probably a violation
of retaliatory conduct.

1896
01:13:26,310 --> 01:13:30,560
So, say I like, you get a 24 hour notice,

1897
01:13:30,560 --> 01:13:35,560
normal inspection, and earlier that week

1898
01:13:35,970 --> 01:13:39,030
you chipped, say, the
corner of your cabinet out.

1899
01:13:39,030 --> 01:13:40,230
He comes in and the landlord's like,

1900
01:13:40,230 --> 01:13:43,107
damage, you're out, 30 day notice.

1901
01:13:43,107 --> 01:13:43,940
He can do that?

1902
01:13:46,210 --> 01:13:49,030
It depends on security
deposit essentially.

1903
01:13:49,030 --> 01:13:50,400
Now if he's covered

1904
01:13:50,400 --> 01:13:52,740
you've got to say, is it damage?

1905
01:13:52,740 --> 01:13:54,810
Damage is defined under
the Security Deposit Act

1906
01:13:54,810 --> 01:13:58,780
as tangible loss, tangible loss.

1907
01:13:58,780 --> 01:13:59,783
So yeah, it's tangible loss.

1908
01:13:59,783 --> 01:14:02,040
Is it, I mean at home.

1909
01:14:02,040 --> 01:14:03,980
Let's say you owned your own home.

1910
01:14:03,980 --> 01:14:06,470
You just put in this brand new countertop

1911
01:14:06,470 --> 01:14:10,020
for you and your partner at that point

1912
01:14:10,020 --> 01:14:13,390
and you do that, you chip it accidentally

1913
01:14:13,390 --> 01:14:15,300
as you're finally putting it in.

1914
01:14:15,300 --> 01:14:16,260
Are you going to go out

1915
01:14:16,260 --> 01:14:17,900
and replace it yourself again?

1916
01:14:17,900 --> 01:14:20,360
I screwed up, I'm gonna
take this countertop out

1917
01:14:20,360 --> 01:14:22,353
and I'm gonna put in a new one.

1918
01:14:24,210 --> 01:14:25,260
If I can afford it.

1919
01:14:26,810 --> 01:14:27,980
I'd be hard pressed to think

1920
01:14:27,980 --> 01:14:28,813
that most home owners,

1921
01:14:28,813 --> 01:14:30,410
unless it was really obvious,

1922
01:14:30,410 --> 01:14:33,093
you know, a big crack
along the, you might.

1923
01:14:34,010 --> 01:14:36,880
If it's just a little chip
chances are you won't.

1924
01:14:36,880 --> 01:14:38,943
You can't, I don't think landlords

1925
01:14:38,943 --> 01:14:40,310
have the right to hold tenants

1926
01:14:40,310 --> 01:14:42,010
to a higher standard.

1927
01:14:42,010 --> 01:14:44,020
What's reasonable wear and tear

1928
01:14:44,020 --> 01:14:46,964
versus a tangible loss, okay?

1929
01:14:46,964 --> 01:14:47,947
All right, we'll get to that

1930
01:14:47,947 --> 01:14:49,650
in the Security Deposit Argument

1931
01:14:49,650 --> 01:14:50,690
but I don't think so.

1932
01:14:50,690 --> 01:14:52,530
I don't think that that would qualify.

1933
01:14:52,530 --> 01:14:54,580
And remember your standard again,

1934
01:14:54,580 --> 01:14:56,980
we've talked about what reasonable is,

1935
01:14:56,980 --> 01:14:59,210
the landlord has to persuade a JP

1936
01:14:59,210 --> 01:15:01,690
that holding them for that chip

1937
01:15:01,690 --> 01:15:04,470
in that countertop is
a reasonable standard.

1938
01:15:04,470 --> 01:15:08,170
'Cause the JP is gonna make that judgment.

1939
01:15:08,170 --> 01:15:09,800
I don't think you could convince him

1940
01:15:09,800 --> 01:15:11,230
that that would be the case.

1941
01:15:11,230 --> 01:15:12,833
So let's talk about
Security Deposits again.

1942
01:15:12,833 --> 01:15:15,870
What is the definition?

1943
01:15:15,870 --> 01:15:18,780
Cleaning expenses,
reasonable and necessary

1944
01:15:18,780 --> 01:15:21,780
to bring the premises to the condition

1945
01:15:21,780 --> 01:15:22,990
for which it was rented.

1946
01:15:22,990 --> 01:15:25,250
Reasonable and necessary.

1947
01:15:25,250 --> 01:15:28,020
You can't charge for cyclical cleaning.

1948
01:15:28,020 --> 01:15:29,780
So, if a landlord tells me,

1949
01:15:29,780 --> 01:15:30,900
well Klaus, you don't understand.

1950
01:15:30,900 --> 01:15:32,770
We're charging them this 'cause I always

1951
01:15:32,770 --> 01:15:34,350
have the place, have Merry Maids

1952
01:15:34,350 --> 01:15:35,790
come and clean the place at the end.

1953
01:15:35,790 --> 01:15:37,020
That's cyclical cleaning,

1954
01:15:37,020 --> 01:15:38,350
can't charge 'em for that.

1955
01:15:38,350 --> 01:15:40,410
It has to be cause by the tenant

1956
01:15:40,410 --> 01:15:41,993
and it has to be necessary.

1957
01:15:42,920 --> 01:15:45,420
Damage, tangible loss again,

1958
01:15:45,420 --> 01:15:47,370
we're talking about security deposit.

1959
01:15:47,370 --> 01:15:49,400
Interestingly enough security deposit

1960
01:15:49,400 --> 01:15:53,260
is defined in money or it's equivalent.

1961
01:15:53,260 --> 01:15:55,130
Money or it's equivalent.

1962
01:15:55,130 --> 01:15:56,920
Early on I had one case where a tenant

1963
01:15:56,920 --> 01:16:00,530
actually worked off a security deposit

1964
01:16:00,530 --> 01:16:02,113
then the landlord was shocked

1965
01:16:02,113 --> 01:16:05,960
when she got a bill at
the end of the tenancy

1966
01:16:05,960 --> 01:16:09,290
for 20 hours of cleaning at minimum wage

1967
01:16:09,290 --> 01:16:11,000
and said well, she
never gave me any money.

1968
01:16:11,000 --> 01:16:16,000
No, but she gave you it's equivalent,

1969
01:16:16,289 --> 01:16:18,870
work essentially.

1970
01:16:18,870 --> 01:16:21,130
No wavers are allowed.

1971
01:16:21,130 --> 01:16:23,132
If you require a security deposit

1972
01:16:23,132 --> 01:16:26,190
you must follow the Security Deposits Act.

1973
01:16:26,190 --> 01:16:27,950
That's all there is to it.

1974
01:16:27,950 --> 01:16:32,310
And it can't be just a kind of,

1975
01:16:32,310 --> 01:16:34,800
you really did it or just suggested

1976
01:16:34,800 --> 01:16:36,660
we could do this under
the table kind of thing.

1977
01:16:36,660 --> 01:16:38,653
That's again, it's not allowed.

1978
01:16:39,540 --> 01:16:41,640
What can be authorized as a deduction

1979
01:16:41,640 --> 01:16:43,100
from the security deposit?

1980
01:16:43,100 --> 01:16:45,040
An amount equal to the damage

1981
01:16:45,040 --> 01:16:46,890
caused by the tenant, that's obvious.

1982
01:16:47,760 --> 01:16:50,080
Any unpaid rent if there's any owing.

1983
01:16:50,080 --> 01:16:52,730
No cyclical cleaning charges are allowed.

1984
01:16:52,730 --> 01:16:54,420
And none of that can be deducted

1985
01:16:54,420 --> 01:16:56,840
until the tenant has a notice

1986
01:16:56,840 --> 01:16:57,900
of what needs to be cleaned,

1987
01:16:57,900 --> 01:17:00,150
24 hours notice is what's required,

1988
01:17:00,150 --> 01:17:04,630
and opportunity to do that obviously.

1989
01:17:04,630 --> 01:17:07,317
No other deductions and if you call it

1990
01:17:07,317 --> 01:17:10,140
a non-refundable cleaning fee

1991
01:17:10,140 --> 01:17:11,773
or something like that,

1992
01:17:12,750 --> 01:17:15,082
if it looks like a
deposit and it's intended

1993
01:17:15,082 --> 01:17:17,130
to secure the condition of the premises

1994
01:17:17,130 --> 01:17:18,913
at the time at which it was rented,

1995
01:17:18,913 --> 01:17:21,950
it's still going to be recoverable.

1996
01:17:21,950 --> 01:17:22,870
Yeah, Emily?

1997
01:17:22,870 --> 01:17:24,823
So the damage caused by a tenant,

1998
01:17:26,280 --> 01:17:27,113
like I was just thinking,

1999
01:17:27,113 --> 01:17:30,960
you break something in your apartment

2000
01:17:30,960 --> 01:17:32,250
and you're like, I could fix this

2001
01:17:32,250 --> 01:17:34,209
or figure out how to
fix this for this much

2002
01:17:34,209 --> 01:17:36,480
but your landlord's
like, I just want to hire

2003
01:17:36,480 --> 01:17:38,880
some professional that's
gonna cost 10 times more

2004
01:17:38,880 --> 01:17:40,920
is that, can you argue that or is it

2005
01:17:40,920 --> 01:17:43,000
just whatever the landlord wants to do?

2006
01:17:43,000 --> 01:17:46,700
And also what the reasonable standard is.

2007
01:17:46,700 --> 01:17:51,360
What's the, if I can fix a faucet myself

2008
01:17:51,360 --> 01:17:54,880
for $50 but a plumber's gonna cost $500

2009
01:17:55,810 --> 01:17:58,323
will a JP think that's okay?

2010
01:17:59,349 --> 01:18:01,210
If you're someone that's never held

2011
01:18:01,210 --> 01:18:03,210
a wrench before and that's the testimony

2012
01:18:03,210 --> 01:18:06,060
you're gonna give, yeah, maybe so.

2013
01:18:06,060 --> 01:18:08,800
Or that he picked the plumber with whom

2014
01:18:08,800 --> 01:18:12,530
he has this connection
and he always overcharges.

2015
01:18:12,530 --> 01:18:14,790
If the average rate is $100 to get

2016
01:18:14,790 --> 01:18:17,430
a leaky faucet fixed, again,

2017
01:18:17,430 --> 01:18:19,008
it depends on that
reasonable, the standard,

2018
01:18:19,008 --> 01:18:21,500
but tenants do not have a right

2019
01:18:21,500 --> 01:18:23,040
because of a Supreme Court case

2020
01:18:23,040 --> 01:18:26,970
to fix damages, just cleaning, okay?

2021
01:18:26,970 --> 01:18:28,330
We'll get in that in a minute.

2022
01:18:28,330 --> 01:18:30,650
And what's got to be in that written list?

2023
01:18:30,650 --> 01:18:32,870
You got to have a written
list of what's due.

2024
01:18:32,870 --> 01:18:35,620
Either rent, utilities, damages, cleaning,

2025
01:18:35,620 --> 01:18:38,280
and it has to be delivered to a tenant

2026
01:18:38,280 --> 01:18:41,900
in 30 days, if you
don't you lose the right

2027
01:18:41,900 --> 01:18:45,330
as a landlord to retain any of it, okay?

2028
01:18:45,330 --> 01:18:46,733
Any of it is not allowed.

2029
01:18:47,803 --> 01:18:49,780
And it has to include

2030
01:18:49,780 --> 01:18:50,730
the payment of the difference.

2031
01:18:50,730 --> 01:18:54,310
All right, you broke a
screen, that costs 60,

2032
01:18:54,310 --> 01:18:56,270
here's the remainder of your $300

2033
01:18:56,270 --> 01:18:58,580
security deposit, that kind of stuff.

2034
01:18:58,580 --> 01:19:00,310
And it's got to mailed to the last

2035
01:19:00,310 --> 01:19:01,143
known address of the tenant,

2036
01:19:01,143 --> 01:19:03,890
and I actually had a landlord in Billings

2037
01:19:03,890 --> 01:19:06,270
say to me, well what if we don't know

2038
01:19:06,270 --> 01:19:08,520
what the last known
address of the tenant is?

2039
01:19:13,680 --> 01:19:16,530
All right, I didn't think that required

2040
01:19:16,530 --> 01:19:17,910
any explanation to them

2041
01:19:17,910 --> 01:19:21,130
but once in a while we
get those questions.

2042
01:19:21,130 --> 01:19:23,120
We also have a 10 day speedy return

2043
01:19:23,120 --> 01:19:25,400
of the security deposit in Montana

2044
01:19:25,400 --> 01:19:28,180
but by golly it seems like it's ignored.

2045
01:19:28,180 --> 01:19:31,240
There are no adverse consequences

2046
01:19:31,240 --> 01:19:33,830
for a landlord to ignore it unfortunately.

2047
01:19:33,830 --> 01:19:36,049
Okay, I'm gonna skip this and I'm gonna

2048
01:19:36,049 --> 01:19:38,273
go right to the cases.

2049
01:19:39,303 --> 01:19:41,293
All right, Bone versus Dunsey.

2050
01:19:42,240 --> 01:19:43,917
Number One Montana, how often do you get

2051
01:19:43,917 --> 01:19:46,660
to cite a case from Number One Montana?

2052
01:19:46,660 --> 01:19:50,210
This case from 1861,

2053
01:19:50,210 --> 01:19:52,920
it was still a territorial Supreme Court

2054
01:19:52,920 --> 01:19:54,380
at that time and it's worth it

2055
01:19:54,380 --> 01:19:56,357
to just go open the leather bound volumes

2056
01:19:56,357 --> 01:19:59,823
in the Library to read
this, it smells so nice.

2057
01:20:01,300 --> 01:20:03,910
In that case the landlord was withholding

2058
01:20:03,910 --> 01:20:06,030
the person's bridal and saddle

2059
01:20:06,030 --> 01:20:07,700
for not paying their rent.

2060
01:20:07,700 --> 01:20:10,770
Okay, today it would be their LCD

2061
01:20:10,770 --> 01:20:13,983
Projection Screen TV
and who knows what else.

2062
01:20:14,860 --> 01:20:17,650
But even in 1861 the court said,

2063
01:20:17,650 --> 01:20:18,483
nope, can't do that,

2064
01:20:18,483 --> 01:20:21,050
you got to use civil procedure,

2065
01:20:21,050 --> 01:20:22,400
in other words go to court.

2066
01:20:23,340 --> 01:20:25,410
Welts versus Rome is kind of fun to read

2067
01:20:25,410 --> 01:20:27,580
just because Justice Freeborn who wrote

2068
01:20:27,580 --> 01:20:30,130
that liked to wax eloquent as they say.

2069
01:20:30,130 --> 01:20:32,820
In that particular case the tenant

2070
01:20:32,820 --> 01:20:34,360
was given notice by the landlord

2071
01:20:34,360 --> 01:20:39,150
that said, here we are
on the 15th of the month,

2072
01:20:39,150 --> 01:20:42,491
your rent increases by twice the amount

2073
01:20:42,491 --> 01:20:45,370
by the 1st of the next month.

2074
01:20:45,370 --> 01:20:46,203
The tenant said to the landlord,

2075
01:20:46,203 --> 01:20:48,250
you can't do that, that's not 30 days.

2076
01:20:48,250 --> 01:20:49,650
I don't care what it says

2077
01:20:49,650 --> 01:20:51,100
that's the way it's gonna be.

2078
01:20:51,100 --> 01:20:53,430
And the tenant says, well
I'm not gonna pay it.

2079
01:20:53,430 --> 01:20:54,940
And then the landlord did what any

2080
01:20:54,940 --> 01:20:57,000
other reasonable landlord would do,

2081
01:20:57,000 --> 01:20:58,400
he moved in with the tenant.

2082
01:20:59,830 --> 01:21:01,390
Actually physically and the court's

2083
01:21:01,390 --> 01:21:03,300
kind of vague as to how that happened

2084
01:21:03,300 --> 01:21:06,870
but he moved not only
himself in with the tenant

2085
01:21:06,870 --> 01:21:10,350
but actually moves his
invalid mother-in-law

2086
01:21:10,350 --> 01:21:12,380
in with him who uses a chamber pot

2087
01:21:12,380 --> 01:21:14,110
and the court is quite detailed

2088
01:21:14,110 --> 01:21:16,860
about how when the tenants would sit down

2089
01:21:16,860 --> 01:21:20,961
to dinner the landlord
would put his grandmother,

2090
01:21:20,961 --> 01:21:24,050
or his mother rather, on the chamber pot

2091
01:21:24,050 --> 01:21:26,040
and use that while they
were having dinner.

2092
01:21:26,040 --> 01:21:29,820
And so even in 1952 that was unreasonable

2093
01:21:29,820 --> 01:21:31,730
and they actually got into some fisticuffs

2094
01:21:31,730 --> 01:21:34,000
and rolled out the door

2095
01:21:34,000 --> 01:21:36,087
fighting with each other at one point.

2096
01:21:36,087 --> 01:21:38,810
That case stands for the proposition that,

2097
01:21:38,810 --> 01:21:40,830
the landlord actually
argued at the Supreme Court

2098
01:21:40,830 --> 01:21:42,839
well, okay maybe I didn't give 'em

2099
01:21:42,839 --> 01:21:44,880
30 days notice but here we are

2100
01:21:44,880 --> 01:21:46,740
at the Supreme Court many months later,

2101
01:21:46,740 --> 01:21:48,790
he certainly has notice now

2102
01:21:48,790 --> 01:21:51,134
and the Supreme Court
said, essentially no.

2103
01:21:51,134 --> 01:21:54,130
Unlike fine wine it doesn't
get better with age.

2104
01:21:54,130 --> 01:21:55,810
A bad notice is a bad notice.

2105
01:21:55,810 --> 01:21:57,880
You gotta start from scratch.

2106
01:21:57,880 --> 01:22:00,132
So if I as a landlord say to a tenant,

2107
01:22:00,132 --> 01:22:02,110
dear tenant, you haven't paid your rent

2108
01:22:02,110 --> 01:22:04,180
in three days, if you haven't,

2109
01:22:04,180 --> 01:22:05,590
you have not paid your rent

2110
01:22:05,590 --> 01:22:07,500
if you don't do it in three days

2111
01:22:08,750 --> 01:22:10,168
our rental agreement would terminate,

2112
01:22:10,168 --> 01:22:11,280
that's good, that's a good one.

2113
01:22:11,280 --> 01:22:13,700
But if I say, your rental agreement

2114
01:22:13,700 --> 01:22:14,850
will terminate in three days

2115
01:22:14,850 --> 01:22:17,150
because you didn't pay rent

2116
01:22:17,150 --> 01:22:19,700
just as an edict, that's a bad notice.

2117
01:22:19,700 --> 01:22:20,720
It doesn't give me the opportunity

2118
01:22:20,720 --> 01:22:22,170
to correct the defect.

2119
01:22:22,170 --> 01:22:24,290
So, they have to start from scratch.

2120
01:22:24,290 --> 01:22:26,143
Even with the passage of more time.

2121
01:22:28,842 --> 01:22:30,020
We're gonna skip that one.

2122
01:22:30,020 --> 01:22:31,060
Corrigan versus Janney,

2123
01:22:31,060 --> 01:22:34,273
that's the light switch
case out of Drummond.

2124
01:22:35,770 --> 01:22:37,360
Let's see, Busch versus Kammerer

2125
01:22:37,360 --> 01:22:39,140
is the garden hose case.

2126
01:22:39,140 --> 01:22:40,520
Limberhand versus Big Ditch.

2127
01:22:40,520 --> 01:22:42,050
If you've been in Missoula for any length

2128
01:22:42,050 --> 01:22:43,630
of time you know that we've got these

2129
01:22:43,630 --> 01:22:46,610
irrigation ditches
throughout the community

2130
01:22:46,610 --> 01:22:47,780
and every once in a while,

2131
01:22:47,780 --> 01:22:49,940
seems like every three to five years,

2132
01:22:49,940 --> 01:22:51,930
some little toddler gets trapped

2133
01:22:51,930 --> 01:22:53,300
in one of those and drowns.

2134
01:22:53,300 --> 01:22:56,300
And in this case the tenant sued

2135
01:22:56,300 --> 01:23:00,280
not only the landlord
but the ditch company

2136
01:23:00,280 --> 01:23:03,700
that ran the ditch right
behind the premises

2137
01:23:03,700 --> 01:23:06,290
when the little toddler was killed

2138
01:23:06,290 --> 01:23:09,130
and the court basically said,

2139
01:23:09,130 --> 01:23:11,780
it put in the reasonable
person's standard.

2140
01:23:11,780 --> 01:23:13,610
In other words, what would a reasonable

2141
01:23:13,610 --> 01:23:16,240
person do if you had someone moving in,

2142
01:23:16,240 --> 01:23:17,888
what would you expect to do,

2143
01:23:17,888 --> 01:23:19,358
because you can't be held responsible

2144
01:23:19,358 --> 01:23:21,660
for dangers that you don't know

2145
01:23:21,660 --> 01:23:23,820
about based on other cases?

2146
01:23:23,820 --> 01:23:25,550
So, what would you expect to do?

2147
01:23:25,550 --> 01:23:27,730
Well, how 'bout putting up a sign?

2148
01:23:27,730 --> 01:23:29,150
It may not help for a toddler.

2149
01:23:29,150 --> 01:23:32,710
Caution, beware, maybe
a skull and crossbones

2150
01:23:32,710 --> 01:23:35,970
or something but fencing
would certainly help.

2151
01:23:35,970 --> 01:23:37,970
If the landlord took the reasonable

2152
01:23:37,970 --> 01:23:40,640
opportunity to protect the tenant,

2153
01:23:40,640 --> 01:23:42,550
and that's always a question for the jury,

2154
01:23:42,550 --> 01:23:43,960
then the landlord has no

2155
01:23:43,960 --> 01:23:45,363
liability under Limberhand.

2156
01:23:46,800 --> 01:23:48,580
Rookhuizen versus Blain's
Mobile Home Court.

2157
01:23:48,580 --> 01:23:51,193
This is one of those where the tenant,

2158
01:23:52,650 --> 01:23:54,300
their mobile home burned.

2159
01:23:54,300 --> 01:23:57,180
When they moved in the landlord had

2160
01:23:57,180 --> 01:23:59,690
fire protection with
one of the local co-ops

2161
01:24:00,770 --> 01:24:02,160
and during that period of time,

2162
01:24:02,160 --> 01:24:03,420
you know what those are like,

2163
01:24:03,420 --> 01:24:06,470
you got to pay a membership
fee all of the time

2164
01:24:06,470 --> 01:24:08,740
because if you don't then why bother

2165
01:24:08,740 --> 01:24:10,300
paying it at all if you only wait

2166
01:24:10,300 --> 01:24:11,500
until the fire happens, you know.

2167
01:24:11,500 --> 01:24:14,200
So, you got to pay that
on a monthly basis.

2168
01:24:14,200 --> 01:24:15,860
The landlord had it when the tenant

2169
01:24:15,860 --> 01:24:17,790
started there but then decided

2170
01:24:17,790 --> 01:24:18,920
he wasn't going to renew it.

2171
01:24:18,920 --> 01:24:20,320
Didn't bother to tell the tenants

2172
01:24:20,320 --> 01:24:23,950
so the tenants sued, when one home burned,

2173
01:24:23,950 --> 01:24:25,650
burned another, and theirs was

2174
01:24:25,650 --> 01:24:27,330
the third one that got burned

2175
01:24:27,330 --> 01:24:28,930
and said, you should've provided

2176
01:24:28,930 --> 01:24:30,380
that fire protection because you had it

2177
01:24:30,380 --> 01:24:31,270
when you started.

2178
01:24:31,270 --> 01:24:32,890
Supreme Court said in that case,

2179
01:24:32,890 --> 01:24:34,490
I think it's the early '90's,

2180
01:24:34,490 --> 01:24:36,040
no, we're not gonna buy that.

2181
01:24:36,040 --> 01:24:38,052
Unless there was an
agreement to the contrary

2182
01:24:38,052 --> 01:24:40,810
the landlord doesn't
have to tell the tenants

2183
01:24:40,810 --> 01:24:42,201
under those circumstances.

2184
01:24:42,201 --> 01:24:44,538
When the fire started, the fire department

2185
01:24:44,538 --> 01:24:47,170
came out, they looked on their list,

2186
01:24:47,170 --> 01:24:49,260
didn't see Blain's on there

2187
01:24:49,260 --> 01:24:50,702
and they just roasted marshmallows.

2188
01:24:50,702 --> 01:24:53,020
They don't stop the fire at that point.

2189
01:24:53,020 --> 01:24:54,850
If they do then why bother,

2190
01:24:54,850 --> 01:24:56,483
again, paying your monthly fee.

2191
01:24:57,810 --> 01:25:00,120
So, then Adams and Mathes,

2192
01:25:00,120 --> 01:25:01,590
that's the River Road Trailer Court case

2193
01:25:01,590 --> 01:25:02,423
we talked about.

2194
01:25:02,423 --> 01:25:06,453
Solem versus Chilcote,
that's the nail hole case.

2195
01:25:10,770 --> 01:25:12,130
All right, that case actually went

2196
01:25:12,130 --> 01:25:15,370
to the Supreme Court over four nail holes.

2197
01:25:15,370 --> 01:25:18,050
There were 14 all together, I think.

2198
01:25:18,050 --> 01:25:20,607
The tenants admitted
that they had done 10,

2199
01:25:20,607 --> 01:25:24,110
$10 per nail hole
incidentally for this landlord

2200
01:25:24,110 --> 01:25:26,720
but they argued that the other four

2201
01:25:26,720 --> 01:25:28,780
were not their responsibility.

2202
01:25:28,780 --> 01:25:30,610
And the landlord said, yes they are

2203
01:25:30,610 --> 01:25:32,870
so we're charging you,
and so on and so forth.

2204
01:25:32,870 --> 01:25:33,967
And they argued about that all the way

2205
01:25:33,967 --> 01:25:35,600
to the Supreme Court.

2206
01:25:35,600 --> 01:25:37,930
The tenants wanted the
ruling from the court

2207
01:25:37,930 --> 01:25:41,120
that if I, that I have the opportunity

2208
01:25:41,120 --> 01:25:43,150
to correct that defect of the damage.

2209
01:25:43,150 --> 01:25:45,760
Unfortunately the court said, no.

2210
01:25:45,760 --> 01:25:46,850
You don't have the opportunity

2211
01:25:46,850 --> 01:25:49,163
to correct damage, only cleaning.

2212
01:25:50,070 --> 01:25:52,450
So, you'd think at that point

2213
01:25:52,450 --> 01:25:54,610
that the tenant would lose, but no.

2214
01:25:54,610 --> 01:25:57,320
In addition to that the landlord

2215
01:25:57,320 --> 01:25:59,720
had a rental agreement at that point said,

2216
01:25:59,720 --> 01:26:02,110
that if you take any of the money back

2217
01:26:02,110 --> 01:26:04,530
from me that I give you as a result

2218
01:26:04,530 --> 01:26:07,300
of our controversy then you waive

2219
01:26:07,300 --> 01:26:09,900
the right to go after me for any more.

2220
01:26:09,900 --> 01:26:11,970
Okay, so in other words you can't just do

2221
01:26:11,970 --> 01:26:13,710
a bird in the hand kind of thing.

2222
01:26:13,710 --> 01:26:15,900
Supreme Court said, no that's an illegal

2223
01:26:15,900 --> 01:26:18,020
provision, the tenants win and the tenants

2224
01:26:18,020 --> 01:26:20,270
get attorney's fees on top of it, yeah.

2225
01:26:20,270 --> 01:26:23,810
So if you're not allowed to make repairs,

2226
01:26:23,810 --> 01:26:27,600
it kind of seems in
conflict with your ability

2227
01:26:27,600 --> 01:26:31,897
to repair and deduct,
like where does that,

2228
01:26:31,897 --> 01:26:34,326
so you call and (mumbling) plumber.

2229
01:26:34,326 --> 01:26:35,159
Yes you can.

2230
01:26:35,159 --> 01:26:37,350
And you can't self repair?

2231
01:26:37,350 --> 01:26:41,260
You cannot self repair for damages.

2232
01:26:41,260 --> 01:26:43,340
That'd be different than an item

2233
01:26:43,340 --> 01:26:44,460
that the landlord has,

2234
01:26:44,460 --> 01:26:46,510
like a furnace that goes out?

2235
01:26:46,510 --> 01:26:51,510
Or like say you mess up the toilet

2236
01:26:51,910 --> 01:26:53,446
due to your own negligence,

2237
01:26:53,446 --> 01:26:56,577
can I call a plumber and get it fixed?

2238
01:26:56,577 --> 01:26:58,047
You can but you're not gonna get

2239
01:26:58,047 --> 01:27:00,255
the landlord to pay for that one.

2240
01:27:00,255 --> 01:27:01,088
Okay.

2241
01:27:01,088 --> 01:27:04,520
Unless the plumbing system just went bad.

2242
01:27:04,520 --> 01:27:07,730
You know, the septic systems been having

2243
01:27:07,730 --> 01:27:09,240
problems for a long time,

2244
01:27:09,240 --> 01:27:12,600
you're just the end
recipient of that problem,

2245
01:27:12,600 --> 01:27:14,030
landlord doesn't fix it, yeah,

2246
01:27:14,030 --> 01:27:16,330
you can get that repaired as long as it

2247
01:27:16,330 --> 01:27:18,230
doesn't cost more than one month's rent.

2248
01:27:18,230 --> 01:27:19,980
That's another limitation on there.

2249
01:27:21,470 --> 01:27:22,840
Swensen versus Janke,

2250
01:27:22,840 --> 01:27:24,560
that's a mobile home court case.

2251
01:27:24,560 --> 01:27:26,343
The tenants had organized,

2252
01:27:28,850 --> 01:27:30,950
as a tenant's union, the landlord

2253
01:27:30,950 --> 01:27:32,560
actually kicked them out because of that.

2254
01:27:32,560 --> 01:27:33,920
Supreme Court said, no.

2255
01:27:33,920 --> 01:27:34,800
Can't kick 'em out.

2256
01:27:34,800 --> 01:27:36,630
Retaliatory conduct.

2257
01:27:36,630 --> 01:27:37,750
Calder versus Anderson.

2258
01:27:37,750 --> 01:27:40,510
Imagine the married student housing

2259
01:27:40,510 --> 01:27:41,620
type of an apartment.

2260
01:27:41,620 --> 01:27:44,410
You've got two buildings here.

2261
01:27:44,410 --> 01:27:45,500
Two apartments, two apartments

2262
01:27:45,500 --> 01:27:47,820
here with a central outdoor walkway.

2263
01:27:47,820 --> 01:27:49,620
Tenant comes walking down one day,

2264
01:27:49,620 --> 01:27:52,970
gets to the bottom, slips on the gravel

2265
01:27:52,970 --> 01:27:54,270
that the landlord had put on there,

2266
01:27:54,270 --> 01:27:56,180
does a loop and a whirl
and a vertical climb

2267
01:27:56,180 --> 01:27:57,410
and lands on her face,

2268
01:27:57,410 --> 01:28:00,310
has some serious macular injuries,

2269
01:28:00,310 --> 01:28:02,710
quite harmed by this

2270
01:28:02,710 --> 01:28:07,710
and the landlord said,
not my responsibility.

2271
01:28:08,000 --> 01:28:10,503
That's a common area, or no,

2272
01:28:13,450 --> 01:28:16,140
because it's outside
and all of the tenants

2273
01:28:16,140 --> 01:28:18,830
share it I don't have
to do anything with it.

2274
01:28:18,830 --> 01:28:20,470
The tenants are responsible.

2275
01:28:20,470 --> 01:28:22,450
And I did the reasonable man thing,

2276
01:28:22,450 --> 01:28:24,800
I put rocks on there to
keep it from slipping.

2277
01:28:24,800 --> 01:28:27,700
Court said, no, because it's a common area

2278
01:28:27,700 --> 01:28:29,910
it is in fact your responsibility.

2279
01:28:29,910 --> 01:28:31,940
We're gonna send this back to the jury

2280
01:28:31,940 --> 01:28:33,960
just to figure out how much

2281
01:28:33,960 --> 01:28:35,563
your responsibility is.

2282
01:28:36,900 --> 01:28:40,070
Whalen versus Taylor is a lock out case.

2283
01:28:40,070 --> 01:28:45,070
Landlord is tired of this one tenant

2284
01:28:45,100 --> 01:28:47,620
constantly not paying his rent on time.

2285
01:28:47,620 --> 01:28:49,950
Comes over and essentially locks him out

2286
01:28:49,950 --> 01:28:51,710
of his building.

2287
01:28:51,710 --> 01:28:54,540
Sees the tenant as he's
doing so and the tenant

2288
01:28:54,540 --> 01:28:55,870
says, oh, I've got the money

2289
01:28:55,870 --> 01:28:57,300
on a dresser bureau inside.

2290
01:28:57,300 --> 01:29:00,770
Can we just go inside and you can have it.

2291
01:29:00,770 --> 01:29:02,497
The landlord actually
counts it out with him

2292
01:29:02,497 --> 01:29:04,900
and then says, no I'm gonna kick you out.

2293
01:29:04,900 --> 01:29:08,620
So the JP didn't believe that the landlord

2294
01:29:08,620 --> 01:29:10,520
didn't know you could not do this

2295
01:29:10,520 --> 01:29:12,160
when he found out not only was the guy

2296
01:29:12,160 --> 01:29:15,350
a landlord, he was a lawyer

2297
01:29:15,350 --> 01:29:17,660
and was a legislator at the time

2298
01:29:17,660 --> 01:29:20,020
that the Landlord Tenant Act was passed.

2299
01:29:20,020 --> 01:29:22,100
Supreme Court said, uh uh.

2300
01:29:22,100 --> 01:29:24,037
Tenant got, even though
he was a bad tenant,

2301
01:29:24,037 --> 01:29:26,853
got attorney's fees for
that plus a new place.

2302
01:29:27,750 --> 01:29:29,890
Let's see, one more, Edie versus Gray.

2303
01:29:29,890 --> 01:29:31,844
Summers versus Crestview.

2304
01:29:31,844 --> 01:29:34,100
And then the last one I want to give ya,

2305
01:29:34,100 --> 01:29:37,760
and I don't know if it's on the outline

2306
01:29:37,760 --> 01:29:39,120
that you have but we can talk

2307
01:29:39,120 --> 01:29:40,680
about it more at the office,

2308
01:29:40,680 --> 01:29:42,830
P.P.M. versus Galbraith.

2309
01:29:42,830 --> 01:29:44,250
Professional Property Management.

2310
01:29:44,250 --> 01:29:46,160
Case out of Missoula District Court

2311
01:29:46,160 --> 01:29:47,920
so it's not a Supreme Court case.

2312
01:29:47,920 --> 01:29:50,550
This is the one where the tenant

2313
01:29:51,710 --> 01:29:54,500
had such things on it as you know,

2314
01:29:54,500 --> 01:29:55,690
failing to mow the grass,

2315
01:29:55,690 --> 01:29:57,370
they were being kicked out for that.

2316
01:29:57,370 --> 01:30:00,663
Or what were some of the other,

2317
01:30:03,240 --> 01:30:07,103
just fines for different
kinds of activities.

2318
01:30:12,170 --> 01:30:15,730
Such as, other fees including those

2319
01:30:15,730 --> 01:30:18,437
added by sending it to a collection agency

2320
01:30:18,437 --> 01:30:20,350
and they were just charging

2321
01:30:20,350 --> 01:30:22,763
these administration fees for violating

2322
01:30:22,763 --> 01:30:24,240
the terms of the lease.

2323
01:30:24,240 --> 01:30:26,890
An administration fee
just because they claim

2324
01:30:26,890 --> 01:30:30,070
that you did something here's an extra $50

2325
01:30:30,070 --> 01:30:33,000
and they called it a lease violation fee

2326
01:30:33,000 --> 01:30:34,500
that was written into the contract

2327
01:30:34,500 --> 01:30:36,260
and Judge Halligan said, no.

2328
01:30:36,260 --> 01:30:37,995
We're not gonna buy that.

2329
01:30:37,995 --> 01:30:41,160
And found in favor of
the tenant in that case.

2330
01:30:41,160 --> 01:30:42,673
I see that as a trend and again,

2331
01:30:42,673 --> 01:30:44,783
it's a consumer protection

2332
01:30:44,783 --> 01:30:48,590
and we did it with only
two minutes beyond 90.

2333
01:30:48,590 --> 01:30:53,090
So, that's it, how'd we do?

2334
01:30:53,090 --> 01:30:54,980
Questions that you have?

2335
01:30:54,980 --> 01:30:56,470
Yeah, Richard?

2336
01:30:56,470 --> 01:30:58,130
I heard with Galbraith an additional

2337
01:30:58,130 --> 01:31:01,810
thing was that landlord's cannot

2338
01:31:03,470 --> 01:31:08,470
just send their amount
owed to collections.

2339
01:31:09,600 --> 01:31:10,433
They need to--

2340
01:31:10,433 --> 01:31:11,950
That's a question then that Richard

2341
01:31:11,950 --> 01:31:12,783
and I have been dealing with,

2342
01:31:12,783 --> 01:31:14,789
that's on a case that he had yesterday.

2343
01:31:14,789 --> 01:31:15,622
Oh okay.

2344
01:31:15,622 --> 01:31:16,930
In Summers versus Crestview they did

2345
01:31:16,930 --> 01:31:20,465
it automatically and they
did it within 24 hours.

2346
01:31:20,465 --> 01:31:24,350
To me that's a Consumer
Protection Act violation

2347
01:31:24,350 --> 01:31:27,110
where someone actually
sends a disputed bill

2348
01:31:27,110 --> 01:31:28,720
to a collection agency before

2349
01:31:28,720 --> 01:31:30,030
I even have a chance to say,

2350
01:31:30,030 --> 01:31:32,410
wait a minute I don't owe you that.

2351
01:31:32,410 --> 01:31:34,810
Can you imagine if you
went to your dentist

2352
01:31:34,810 --> 01:31:39,784
and you called them 24 hours in advance

2353
01:31:39,784 --> 01:31:42,370
and said, I can't make
that but they decided,

2354
01:31:42,370 --> 01:31:45,500
no you're gonna pay that
bill for not showin' up.

2355
01:31:45,500 --> 01:31:47,840
And send that to a
collection agency right away?

2356
01:31:47,840 --> 01:31:49,070
You'd be outraged.

2357
01:31:49,070 --> 01:31:50,900
But because it's Landlord Tenant Law

2358
01:31:50,900 --> 01:31:52,970
we seem to allow that to occur.

2359
01:31:52,970 --> 01:31:55,430
And we may be able to test that in a case

2360
01:31:55,430 --> 01:31:57,830
that Richard is working
on right now, we'll see.

2361
01:32:01,270 --> 01:32:03,173
Okay, thanks for listening.

2362
01:32:04,400 --> 01:32:06,010
Takes a lot of energy doesn't it?

2363
01:32:06,010 --> 01:32:09,037
-For an hour and a half.
-(laughing)