1 00:00:02,540 --> 00:00:06,475 Okay. Greetings, friends. Thanks for checking out the 2 00:00:06,499 --> 00:00:11,270 Northwest Montana Lookout Association's oral history project, 3 00:00:11,870 --> 00:00:19,400 where we strive to capture memories and experiences of current and former fire lookouts. 4 00:00:19,940 --> 00:00:28,490 I'm Kjell Petersen, along with Beth Hodder. Both of us are board members for NWMT-LA. 5 00:00:28,520 --> 00:00:33,278 Beth, do you want to say anything before we move on? No, I'm just looking 6 00:00:33,302 --> 00:00:38,060 forward to having another really wonderful interview with Brian Miller. 7 00:00:38,960 --> 00:00:39,350 Cool. 8 00:00:40,370 --> 00:00:46,655 Beth is the project manager for oral history with the association and 9 00:00:46,679 --> 00:00:54,260 coordinates closely with the the Mansfield Library at the University of Montana, 10 00:00:54,620 --> 00:00:57,200 where our interviews are permanently stored. 11 00:00:57,530 --> 00:01:02,438 Plus, once they're online down there, then we also load 12 00:01:02,462 --> 00:01:07,370 them onto our website for the public to enjoy forever. 13 00:01:08,680 --> 00:01:13,660 We're a privilege to have Brian Miller with us today. 14 00:01:13,690 --> 00:01:16,390 Welcome, Brian. Welcome. Thank you. 15 00:01:19,200 --> 00:01:25,444 It has the we have the the unique privilege of having somebody with 16 00:01:25,468 --> 00:01:32,280 us who shared part of his very young early look out days with his dad, 17 00:01:32,550 --> 00:01:39,330 Gene Miller, who has some interviews stored on our website. 18 00:01:40,710 --> 00:01:44,388 Gene, staff, lookouts, various lookouts around 19 00:01:44,412 --> 00:01:48,090 the northwest to the tune of about 50 years. 20 00:01:48,090 --> 00:01:52,823 So. We're going to get we're going to get a younger version 21 00:01:52,847 --> 00:01:57,580 of younger memory of of what Gene shared with us earlier. 22 00:01:57,590 --> 00:02:01,505 So I'm really excited to see what what Brian remembers 23 00:02:01,529 --> 00:02:05,000 from starting out with a five year old brain. 24 00:02:07,610 --> 00:02:11,183 Brian's website has a number of qualifications on 25 00:02:11,207 --> 00:02:14,780 it that are just too deep for me to try to learn. 26 00:02:14,780 --> 00:02:17,840 So I'm going to ask him to share those with us. 27 00:02:18,200 --> 00:02:25,790 Like P.T. and M.S. and Oaks and CMT, Petey and RCA. 28 00:02:26,150 --> 00:02:30,401 So. Brian, if you want to start out by just sharing your 29 00:02:30,425 --> 00:02:35,450 professional qualifications with us and then when you're ready, 30 00:02:35,450 --> 00:02:39,473 you can launch into where you grew up and where you 31 00:02:39,497 --> 00:02:43,520 went to school and all sorts of that information. 32 00:02:43,820 --> 00:02:47,430 And I think we're ready if you're ready, right? I am. 33 00:02:47,450 --> 00:02:51,521 Thank you, Michel. Thank you, Beth. It's a privilege to be here and to 34 00:02:51,545 --> 00:02:55,970 share my history of the lookouts, my experience with lookouts personally, 35 00:02:56,150 --> 00:03:02,780 and also just my relationship with lookouts as a family and as an individual. 36 00:03:02,780 --> 00:03:08,513 And so, yeah, I'm going to be first, to answer your question, shall, about 37 00:03:08,537 --> 00:03:14,270 what all those letters of the alphabet soup after my name really means. 38 00:03:15,470 --> 00:03:19,550 I am a physical therapist and I am. 39 00:03:19,910 --> 00:03:25,129 I also have a master's degree in science as part of my physical therapy training. 40 00:03:25,130 --> 00:03:29,798 I got some extra credentials which include orthopedic 41 00:03:29,822 --> 00:03:35,390 clinical specialist, and I'm also certified in dry needling, 42 00:03:35,390 --> 00:03:40,118 which is the C, see T and then in addition to that, I 43 00:03:40,142 --> 00:03:44,870 like working with runners and any other things running. 44 00:03:44,870 --> 00:03:50,000 And so I am certified by the Roadrunners Club of America as a coach. 45 00:03:50,810 --> 00:03:53,990 And so I have that credential. 46 00:03:53,990 --> 00:03:57,743 I don't coach people actively, but I do work a lot with runners 47 00:03:57,767 --> 00:04:01,520 and I do teach running clinics in the valley here in if I head, 48 00:04:03,200 --> 00:04:05,858 but I will go on to a little bit of my history 49 00:04:05,882 --> 00:04:08,540 unless you have other questions about that. 50 00:04:10,640 --> 00:04:17,390 I think I'm ready. Okay. So most of my growing up years has been in Montana, though. 51 00:04:17,390 --> 00:04:20,508 I was born in Indiana when my parents were in 52 00:04:20,532 --> 00:04:23,650 graduate school there and undergraduate years. 53 00:04:23,660 --> 00:04:27,188 My mom and dad met in Indiana in the small town 54 00:04:27,212 --> 00:04:30,740 of Goshen, where Dad and Mom were in school. 55 00:04:30,770 --> 00:04:34,640 Dad went on to get multiple degrees. 56 00:04:34,700 --> 00:04:37,665 That led him to education and then brought 57 00:04:37,689 --> 00:04:41,090 the family back to Montana, where he grew up. 58 00:04:41,630 --> 00:04:45,683 When I was four years old. And so we settled in the 59 00:04:45,707 --> 00:04:49,760 small town of Potomac outside of Missoula, Montana. 60 00:04:50,390 --> 00:04:56,629 And so pretty much all my memories are of Montana, and I truly identify as a montana. 61 00:04:56,630 --> 00:05:02,450 And from that regard, I went to a small grade school called Atomic, 62 00:05:02,450 --> 00:05:08,798 and it had two grades per classroom and it had maybe at most 90 63 00:05:08,822 --> 00:05:15,170 kids in the whole K through eighth grade school student body. 64 00:05:15,710 --> 00:05:17,480 And it was a good experience. 65 00:05:18,230 --> 00:05:24,645 I look back in those years in retrospect and recognize that I 66 00:05:24,669 --> 00:05:31,940 have lots of fond memories of actually growing up in a rural area. 67 00:05:31,940 --> 00:05:34,209 But at the time, you know, you're thinking, well, you don't 68 00:05:34,233 --> 00:05:36,739 have the city life and you don't have all these opportunities. 69 00:05:36,740 --> 00:05:40,160 But in retrospect, I had more opportunities than most kids. 70 00:05:41,570 --> 00:05:44,870 Mom and Dad were busy building their house as I was growing up, 71 00:05:44,870 --> 00:05:49,358 and so I spent a lot of time playing outdoors 72 00:05:49,382 --> 00:05:53,870 and that that action of playing outdoors led 73 00:05:53,870 --> 00:05:57,593 to a wild imagination and and a relationship 74 00:05:57,617 --> 00:06:01,340 to the outdoors that just kept on growing, 75 00:06:01,550 --> 00:06:04,842 especially when I was on lookouts. I'm going to go 76 00:06:04,866 --> 00:06:08,900 through the rest of my my summary of my history up to now. 77 00:06:08,900 --> 00:06:11,954 And then I'll get into the details about what it was like 78 00:06:11,978 --> 00:06:15,470 growing up on Lookout Tower with my father during the summers. 79 00:06:15,680 --> 00:06:21,319 So after grade school, I went to high school in Missoula and Missoula Healthy. 80 00:06:21,320 --> 00:06:24,051 And then I went on to Stanford University in 81 00:06:24,075 --> 00:06:27,380 California, where I got a degree in human biology. 82 00:06:28,340 --> 00:06:30,020 My intent was to go to medical school, 83 00:06:30,020 --> 00:06:35,333 but then I got enticed back into the outdoor world and right after 84 00:06:35,357 --> 00:06:40,670 school I worked in an outdoor education center in fairly Vermont. 85 00:06:41,480 --> 00:06:44,440 HULBERT Outdoor center was the name of it. And I do 86 00:06:44,464 --> 00:06:47,900 have to tell you, just a little funny Side Story fairly, 87 00:06:47,900 --> 00:06:53,241 Vermont had a quick response squad that they decided to name 88 00:06:53,265 --> 00:06:59,150 it the fairly fast squad, you know, and they took it seriously. 89 00:06:59,150 --> 00:07:04,880 But I guess they were they were more than fast. But I do love that name. 90 00:07:06,500 --> 00:07:10,871 I worked in that program for three years, became certified 91 00:07:10,895 --> 00:07:14,959 as a wilderness EMT and then moved back to Montana, 92 00:07:14,960 --> 00:07:18,188 where I just felt the pull get back to Montana because 93 00:07:18,212 --> 00:07:21,440 this is where the mountains are real in my opinion. 94 00:07:23,270 --> 00:07:27,758 I took a job at the Isaac Walton Inn as a backcountry ski 95 00:07:27,782 --> 00:07:32,270 guide, and I oversaw their program in cross-country skiing. 96 00:07:32,270 --> 00:07:36,410 So I taught skiing. I guided trips into Glacier National Park. 97 00:07:37,550 --> 00:07:43,240 I did all things skiing in the program, but I also did a little marketing, 98 00:07:43,250 --> 00:07:48,758 little bit of housekeeping, maintenance, all those 99 00:07:48,782 --> 00:07:54,290 things, and and really became part of the family. 100 00:07:54,290 --> 00:07:56,769 It was owned and owned the the Inn, Larry. And 101 00:07:56,793 --> 00:07:59,660 then they were the owners of the inn at that time. 102 00:08:01,100 --> 00:08:07,436 And then this young gal who decided to come and work at the inn during 103 00:08:07,460 --> 00:08:13,520 the summers during her college years, made acquaintance with me. 104 00:08:13,520 --> 00:08:18,683 And the one year that I did stay in the summertime working there, we 105 00:08:18,707 --> 00:08:23,870 were hiking partners and by the end of the summer, we were engaged. 106 00:08:24,500 --> 00:08:28,478 And so Heidi Harris and now Miller has joined 107 00:08:28,502 --> 00:08:32,479 me and the rest of my adult life together. 108 00:08:32,480 --> 00:08:36,266 And we have two boys, Reed and Kyle, who are now in their 109 00:08:36,290 --> 00:08:40,550 twenties, and we still love to hike and play in the outdoors. 110 00:08:42,560 --> 00:08:46,280 So one thing I should mention, and during my years at the Isaac Wildman, 111 00:08:47,180 --> 00:08:51,536 I took up a took on a big adventure where I walked 112 00:08:51,560 --> 00:08:56,630 from Mexico to Canada following the continental divide. 113 00:08:57,290 --> 00:09:02,732 And at that time, there wasn't a official trail that 114 00:09:02,756 --> 00:09:08,839 linked all the sections of official trail at that time. 115 00:09:08,840 --> 00:09:12,682 So. I had pieced together a lot of the trip and 116 00:09:12,706 --> 00:09:17,050 made it in about six months from April to October, 117 00:09:18,040 --> 00:09:21,164 roughly following the continental divide, 118 00:09:21,188 --> 00:09:24,940 starting at the Mexican border, heading north. 119 00:09:25,330 --> 00:09:33,070 And out of that year, they had an El Nino year, so they had 230% of normal snowpack. 120 00:09:35,170 --> 00:09:41,789 So I had to change gears and in two weeks I flip my itinerary 121 00:09:41,813 --> 00:09:48,100 in Montana, where in 1993 it was a really low snowpack. 122 00:09:48,100 --> 00:09:54,418 It was 75% of normal at the end of April. And so I started 123 00:09:54,442 --> 00:10:01,870 restarted my trip after a delay pushing through snow in Colorado. 124 00:10:01,900 --> 00:10:05,108 I did come back to Montana in June and then 125 00:10:05,132 --> 00:10:08,800 started hiking from the Canadian border south. 126 00:10:10,030 --> 00:10:18,729 Well, 1993 was the wettest ever recorded in northwest Montana. 127 00:10:18,730 --> 00:10:22,382 Well, actually, any of the months ever recorded 128 00:10:22,406 --> 00:10:25,660 in northwest Montana, it was July 1993. 129 00:10:27,100 --> 00:10:32,200 It was wetter than January, February. March is usually think of a lot of precipitation, 130 00:10:32,380 --> 00:10:39,053 but that July it rained for 35 out of 45 days that I was hiking 131 00:10:39,077 --> 00:10:45,750 through Montana and and it was trying let's put it that way. 132 00:10:46,300 --> 00:10:50,320 It kind of feels like that this spring, too. Yeah. 133 00:10:50,590 --> 00:10:53,558 In fact, as I'm looking right out here, out the window, we're 134 00:10:53,582 --> 00:10:56,500 having a steady rainfall that is making everything green. 135 00:10:57,850 --> 00:11:02,260 So after hiking, the divide met Heidi. 136 00:11:03,340 --> 00:11:08,694 We decided to get married in 1995, and and then I went to graduate 137 00:11:08,718 --> 00:11:14,650 school at the University of Montana in physical therapy from 96 to 98, 138 00:11:14,990 --> 00:11:19,108 and then moved to the Head Valley, worked as a staff therapist, 139 00:11:19,132 --> 00:11:23,050 and then started my own clinic with a partner, Tim Gibbs. 140 00:11:23,290 --> 00:11:28,360 And we started in 2007. And so we have advanced rehabilitation 141 00:11:28,384 --> 00:11:34,120 services, which we have owned for 15 years as of this conversation. 142 00:11:35,710 --> 00:11:39,234 So as I mentioned previously, I have the two boys, Reed 143 00:11:39,258 --> 00:11:43,240 and Kyle Reed is finishing up at the University of Montana, 144 00:11:43,240 --> 00:11:47,800 but he is currently studying in the University of Granada in Spain, 145 00:11:48,340 --> 00:11:51,978 and he will be working in Tanzania this summer at a 146 00:11:52,002 --> 00:11:56,079 Nature Conservancy project back to Europe in the fall, 147 00:11:56,080 --> 00:11:59,032 before he eventually ends up at the University of 148 00:11:59,056 --> 00:12:02,440 Montana in the spring to finish his last few classes. 149 00:12:03,520 --> 00:12:06,909 And my son Kyle, who's just finished his freshman 150 00:12:06,933 --> 00:12:10,180 year at Montana State University in Bozeman, 151 00:12:10,780 --> 00:12:15,957 is currently working for the Forest Service and Trails, and he is 152 00:12:15,981 --> 00:12:21,969 stationed in the Great Bear Wilderness and doing a lot of crosscut work. 153 00:12:21,970 --> 00:12:24,328 And, and then in the front country, some chainsaw 154 00:12:24,352 --> 00:12:26,709 work, keeping those trails open for all of us. 155 00:12:26,710 --> 00:12:32,140 We love to play on them. In fact, yesterday, Heidi, Kyle and I, 156 00:12:32,140 --> 00:12:35,713 we went for a hike and Kyle decided to bring the chainsaw 157 00:12:35,737 --> 00:12:39,310 and we cut out 20 trees on this trail that we went on. 158 00:12:39,400 --> 00:12:44,470 So we love trails and we love the Forest Service and we'll have fun about. 159 00:12:45,490 --> 00:12:49,828 Was that of the service trail? It was it was a Ingles mountain trail, 160 00:12:49,852 --> 00:12:54,190 which is to the west of town here by Bitter Lake and above Bitter Lake. 161 00:12:56,380 --> 00:13:03,700 So my current hobbies are running ultramarathons, trail running. 162 00:13:04,400 --> 00:13:08,288 I'm training for a 50 K race that's about a 31 163 00:13:08,312 --> 00:13:12,720 mile race at the Big Sky ski area called the Rut. 164 00:13:12,730 --> 00:13:17,833 And that will be at the end of the beginning of September, end of the 165 00:13:17,857 --> 00:13:22,960 summer, and that will involve climbing three big peaks in this run. 166 00:13:23,170 --> 00:13:27,700 So I'm doing lots of running as I can. 167 00:13:27,700 --> 00:13:30,828 I put on some trail races as a race director and a 168 00:13:30,852 --> 00:13:34,750 fundraiser for The Voice to Black Tail Trails Organization. 169 00:13:35,320 --> 00:13:39,451 I just a week and a half ago, I put on a hair 170 00:13:39,475 --> 00:13:44,170 and a half marathon 10-K and five K trail races. 171 00:13:44,170 --> 00:13:48,568 And then in the September 18th, I put on a trail marathon that's 172 00:13:48,592 --> 00:13:52,990 called Four Ways to Black Tail Trail Marathon and that runs from 173 00:13:54,070 --> 00:13:56,953 above lakeside up to the top of Black Tail Mountain 174 00:13:56,977 --> 00:13:59,860 and then all the way to Herron Park for 26 miles. 175 00:14:00,760 --> 00:14:04,180 So those are what keep me busy right now. 176 00:14:05,530 --> 00:14:09,120 And so that's my my history in a nutshell. 177 00:14:09,130 --> 00:14:12,808 So what I thought I would do right now is go 178 00:14:12,832 --> 00:14:16,510 through my experiences on fire watch towers. 179 00:14:16,870 --> 00:14:20,470 Yes. Jumped in with a couple of things before I turn you loose there. 180 00:14:20,530 --> 00:14:25,873 Yeah. I wanted to let you know that you caught my attention when you 181 00:14:25,897 --> 00:14:32,200 mentioned Potomac in 1967, I was at the Lubec Forest in Forestry Summer camp, 182 00:14:32,680 --> 00:14:40,510 so we would all oftentimes go across the highway to the post office, pick up mail, 183 00:14:40,690 --> 00:14:44,293 and and I can't remember the postmistress name, but she 184 00:14:44,317 --> 00:14:47,920 was just the sweetest lady in the history of the world. 185 00:14:48,580 --> 00:14:55,928 And then as soon as class was over for the day, we would 186 00:14:55,952 --> 00:15:03,300 walk down to the Hap and ladies bar on the other river. 187 00:15:04,090 --> 00:15:10,959 Yes. Yes. We always joked because all of us were under age then the cool thing was if 188 00:15:10,960 --> 00:15:17,560 you could get up on a stool and reach the bar and put your money on the bar, 189 00:15:17,710 --> 00:15:21,190 you got served. We spent a long time. It happened later. 190 00:15:23,320 --> 00:15:26,524 Well, Luke Recht has a lot of memories for me, too, because 191 00:15:26,548 --> 00:15:29,530 that's where I did my first cross-country ski races. 192 00:15:30,580 --> 00:15:36,133 And it and it was a great place to explore and the trails around there 193 00:15:36,157 --> 00:15:41,710 and the services there that they have to the educational programs now. 194 00:15:41,950 --> 00:15:45,110 It's been a great, great place, their lubec. So that's a neat memory. 195 00:15:45,130 --> 00:15:51,394 All right. Yeah. And we got invited over to Charles Lindbergh's 196 00:15:51,418 --> 00:15:58,390 brother, who had a ranch adjoining Luger, and it was actually land. 197 00:15:58,390 --> 00:16:03,790 Lindbergh was his name? Yes. And I believe he was. 198 00:16:04,600 --> 00:16:08,229 I thought he was the son of Charles Lindbergh, who. 199 00:16:08,230 --> 00:16:12,520 Now, I might be wrong there. Yeah. And his grandchildren. 200 00:16:14,140 --> 00:16:21,430 Peter and I forget her name. They were my same age, and so Guarino had a tiny one. 201 00:16:21,430 --> 00:16:25,738 Room school and Potomac would have annual track meets 202 00:16:25,762 --> 00:16:30,070 either at Greensboro or at Potomac, usually a casino. 203 00:16:30,550 --> 00:16:33,949 And so I have memories of competing against those 204 00:16:33,973 --> 00:16:37,870 folks from the tiny little one room school, Grinnell. 205 00:16:39,010 --> 00:16:42,130 That's that's a neat memory. Thank you for bringing that one up for me. 206 00:16:42,400 --> 00:16:48,640 Cool. Yeah, it was a it was a a formative time in my life. 207 00:16:49,090 --> 00:16:54,130 Anyway, before we run off, I. I asked you a question a couple of days ago, 208 00:16:54,490 --> 00:16:58,903 and I'm going to throw it out again for you to think about and share 209 00:16:58,927 --> 00:17:03,340 with us at the end of today and for everyone else to think about. 210 00:17:05,650 --> 00:17:10,900 The question that I want you to think about and respond to. 211 00:17:13,390 --> 00:17:15,943 When you look back at all the look out people 212 00:17:15,967 --> 00:17:18,520 that you've associated with over the years, 213 00:17:19,360 --> 00:17:25,695 is there a characteristic that commonly stands out among them and 214 00:17:25,719 --> 00:17:32,650 appeals to you that you may well have made part of your adult world? 215 00:17:33,190 --> 00:17:36,640 So you can share the answer to that at the end if you care to. 216 00:17:38,510 --> 00:17:43,268 Well, you know, actually, Chelle, since you mentioned it, I did have two 217 00:17:43,292 --> 00:17:48,050 answers and I thought I would do one now and maybe end it, go with it. 218 00:17:48,080 --> 00:17:54,053 I think that the first one, it it has to do with a type of 219 00:17:54,077 --> 00:18:00,680 resilience that comes with people who have been on their own, 220 00:18:00,680 --> 00:18:04,880 on top of a lookout tower, having to make do with what they have. 221 00:18:05,710 --> 00:18:10,194 And I think that taught me a lot about really 222 00:18:10,218 --> 00:18:15,520 just being fine with what you have at that moment. 223 00:18:16,480 --> 00:18:20,233 And I think that that is invaluable because in this 224 00:18:20,257 --> 00:18:24,010 age where we have so many things that are disposable, 225 00:18:24,550 --> 00:18:29,050 that when we are in a position that we may not have all these infinite resources, 226 00:18:29,470 --> 00:18:32,953 to have that ability to make the best of what 227 00:18:32,977 --> 00:18:36,459 you have and be resilient in that way is what 228 00:18:36,460 --> 00:18:42,390 I value from Look Out my look out experience and what I've seen in other local people, 229 00:18:43,240 --> 00:18:47,068 the people that I've met and that I will be sharing with 230 00:18:47,092 --> 00:18:50,920 you and that I met through the air waves on lookouts. 231 00:18:51,670 --> 00:18:55,870 So thanks. I think that's a great question and I have some more thoughts on that. 232 00:18:56,170 --> 00:18:59,560 So coming at the end for the other part. Well, help me. 233 00:19:00,010 --> 00:19:02,833 Okay. And then and then a few days ago and you 234 00:19:02,857 --> 00:19:05,680 can address this now or later if you want to. 235 00:19:05,680 --> 00:19:10,405 But a few days ago, when we were talking, you shared with me what 236 00:19:10,429 --> 00:19:15,820 participating in our oral history project means to you and your family. 237 00:19:16,810 --> 00:19:20,240 Do you want to? Yeah, I'll take that on now. 238 00:19:20,260 --> 00:19:25,018 Because when I was reflecting on what I wanted to talk 239 00:19:25,042 --> 00:19:29,800 about in this this conversation, I realized just how. 240 00:19:31,360 --> 00:19:37,138 Powerful. My lookout experiences are for my whole family 241 00:19:37,162 --> 00:19:42,940 because it was our summers as far as my sister, my mother, 242 00:19:43,120 --> 00:19:47,451 my dad and I, everything was built around lookout 243 00:19:47,475 --> 00:19:52,440 experience and we have so many good memories of that. 244 00:19:52,450 --> 00:19:55,933 It's just part of who we are and the fabric of what 245 00:19:55,957 --> 00:19:59,439 our lives were for the seventies and the eighties. 246 00:19:59,440 --> 00:20:02,435 And it still is now just because of Dad's 247 00:20:02,459 --> 00:20:06,280 volunteer experiences now that he's well into his 248 00:20:06,280 --> 00:20:09,088 eighties and still connected to the lookouts and 249 00:20:09,112 --> 00:20:11,920 and wanting to be part of the lookout experience, 250 00:20:12,760 --> 00:20:18,548 I feel this poll to go back to lookouts at some point 251 00:20:18,572 --> 00:20:25,030 in my life and in whatever capacity it may be right now, 252 00:20:25,030 --> 00:20:30,430 I'm too busy trying to cover lots of ground in the wilderness on foot. 253 00:20:30,940 --> 00:20:34,149 And so I'm pulled to explore so much. 254 00:20:34,150 --> 00:20:36,973 But I do know that there will be a time where I'll 255 00:20:36,997 --> 00:20:39,820 be more much more content to actually sit on top of 256 00:20:39,820 --> 00:20:43,481 the lookout and to do those activities that I found 257 00:20:43,505 --> 00:20:47,020 so much meaning in the early part of my lives. 258 00:20:47,920 --> 00:20:53,132 So and you know, for me, it was just a lot of time to really 259 00:20:53,156 --> 00:20:58,899 reflect and to think as a young child, but also as a young man. 260 00:20:58,900 --> 00:21:02,428 It was I read some very powerful books when I was 261 00:21:02,452 --> 00:21:05,980 on the lookout that still influenced me to today. 262 00:21:06,190 --> 00:21:09,910 So, boy, there's a lot of layers to that question and you really, 263 00:21:09,934 --> 00:21:13,420 really triggered some great memories and thoughts on that. 264 00:21:13,960 --> 00:21:17,713 That's cool. Thanks for sharing that. And I 265 00:21:17,737 --> 00:21:21,490 will warn you now, that call never goes away. 266 00:21:22,420 --> 00:21:26,640 I agree. You'll be back. 267 00:21:26,650 --> 00:21:31,090 You'll be back on the mountaintop these days. It just never goes away. 268 00:21:31,660 --> 00:21:36,753 Oh, I do believe. I do believe it. Okay, so if you're ready, we can 269 00:21:36,777 --> 00:21:41,870 launch into more of your look out history from what I have so far. 270 00:21:41,890 --> 00:21:45,910 I think we're looking at about 12 years. Is that right? 271 00:21:46,290 --> 00:21:53,440 That started out as a five year old and then went on into young adult tree. 272 00:21:54,130 --> 00:21:59,278 Yeah. Yeah. I would say confidently that there 273 00:21:59,302 --> 00:22:04,450 was no adult stream and I was on the lookout. 274 00:22:04,870 --> 00:22:11,290 But I'm sorry. Anyway, the floor is yours again. 275 00:22:12,520 --> 00:22:16,828 Well, the first year that I was on the lookout was the summer 276 00:22:16,852 --> 00:22:21,160 of 1972 as a five year old since my birthday falls in November. 277 00:22:22,780 --> 00:22:28,660 That was just about before I was six, and so I was an old five year old. 278 00:22:28,840 --> 00:22:33,590 And her dad thought I was old enough to, you know, 279 00:22:33,820 --> 00:22:36,088 join him on the lookout and that I wasn't going to be 280 00:22:36,112 --> 00:22:38,380 too much work for him, though I know I kept him busy. 281 00:22:40,240 --> 00:22:43,723 Dad was working on Blue Mountain Lookout as 282 00:22:43,747 --> 00:22:47,229 the relief for the main lookout person there. 283 00:22:47,230 --> 00:22:50,968 And then he also did relief work for the person on 284 00:22:50,992 --> 00:22:54,730 Norman Peak and eventually on slide rock lookout. 285 00:22:55,930 --> 00:22:59,860 So lolo. So all those are in lolo national forest. 286 00:22:59,900 --> 00:23:03,627 Your mountain overlooks the town of the city of 287 00:23:03,651 --> 00:23:08,110 missoula and mormon peak is at the base of lolo peak. 288 00:23:08,110 --> 00:23:12,463 It's kind of on a spur ridge and it was you could see 289 00:23:12,487 --> 00:23:16,839 the mormon peak clearly from blue mountain and then 290 00:23:16,840 --> 00:23:20,767 slide rock lookout was down and the southern part 291 00:23:20,791 --> 00:23:25,210 of the lower national forest in the Rock Creek area. 292 00:23:26,290 --> 00:23:31,389 And it was kind of a an island unit, if you will, for Lolo National Forest. 293 00:23:31,390 --> 00:23:35,290 And that was the only lookout tower that really monitored that area. 294 00:23:37,630 --> 00:23:40,571 So and I want to talk about each of those lookouts 295 00:23:40,595 --> 00:23:44,440 specifically as it comes up through the timeframe or timeline. 296 00:23:46,300 --> 00:23:50,500 But those those first years were following dad around. 297 00:23:51,430 --> 00:23:59,350 And in those two different places in that was 1972 and 1973. 298 00:23:59,350 --> 00:24:03,733 And then in 1974 and 75, Dad was working as a 299 00:24:03,757 --> 00:24:08,139 prevention tech doing recreation area patrol. 300 00:24:08,140 --> 00:24:11,709 So he would drive the whole length of Rock Creek 301 00:24:11,733 --> 00:24:15,760 in a day checking on all the different campgrounds. 302 00:24:16,330 --> 00:24:21,790 And so I wasn't really part of that experience because I couldn't be at that time. 303 00:24:22,570 --> 00:24:27,970 But then from 1976 to 79, I was age 9 to 12. 304 00:24:29,230 --> 00:24:32,023 I was on Blue Mountain Lookout primarily with him 305 00:24:32,047 --> 00:24:34,840 because he was the main person on Mount Lookout 306 00:24:35,830 --> 00:24:39,896 and and then and again jumping through the whole 307 00:24:39,920 --> 00:24:43,900 time frame and then going back into details. 308 00:24:45,040 --> 00:24:51,790 In 1985, I started working for the district fire crew. 309 00:24:51,790 --> 00:24:54,974 At the end of the season, I turned 18 the year 310 00:24:54,998 --> 00:24:58,750 before, so but I'd been working another summer job. 311 00:25:01,100 --> 00:25:05,108 My dad was able to connect me with. Well, I knew all the people that 312 00:25:05,132 --> 00:25:09,139 worked at the Forest Service and logo and so they knew my experience. 313 00:25:09,140 --> 00:25:13,403 So they thought it was only appropriate that I jump in at the end 314 00:25:13,427 --> 00:25:17,690 of the season when they needed some extra people on the fire crew. 315 00:25:18,530 --> 00:25:23,258 I wasn't fighting fires. I was basically doing trail or 316 00:25:23,282 --> 00:25:28,010 trail clearing and thinning work for forest projects. 317 00:25:29,150 --> 00:25:34,459 And so I worked a little bit on the in 85. 318 00:25:34,460 --> 00:25:41,840 And then in 1986, I was trained as a firefighter on the district crew for Missoula. 319 00:25:42,890 --> 00:25:48,290 And then in 1987, I was on the hotshot crew, the local hotshots, 320 00:25:49,190 --> 00:25:58,790 and and then in 1988 to 89, I was the relief lookout for Dad on Blue Mountain Lookout. 321 00:25:59,480 --> 00:26:03,397 And then I was also serving as a prevention tech, 322 00:26:03,421 --> 00:26:07,910 which I'll go over a little bit more details on that. 323 00:26:09,650 --> 00:26:13,703 Then there was another jump in 1997 where I was the 324 00:26:13,727 --> 00:26:17,780 relief lookout during one summer of graduate school, 325 00:26:17,780 --> 00:26:24,170 and I did the relief look out work for Blue Mountain once briefly for Morrell Mountain. 326 00:26:25,160 --> 00:26:28,280 I did some work on Westport, Butte, even though it wasn't 327 00:26:28,304 --> 00:26:31,760 the official look out, it was more of a rental at that time. 328 00:26:32,660 --> 00:26:35,693 And then I trained some people up on Union Pacific 329 00:26:35,717 --> 00:26:38,750 look out for the state because they needed some. 330 00:26:39,740 --> 00:26:42,980 They were doing some collaborative work with the U.S. Forest Service. 331 00:26:43,160 --> 00:26:48,290 The state asked the Forest Service if there was somebody that could train some folks. 332 00:26:48,290 --> 00:26:52,355 And since Union Union Peak overlooked the Potomac Valley, I knew the 333 00:26:52,379 --> 00:26:56,809 area very well and I could train what it was like to be on the lookout, 334 00:26:56,810 --> 00:26:59,423 but also knew the area well enough to point 335 00:26:59,447 --> 00:27:02,060 out landmarks that the person needed to know. 336 00:27:04,010 --> 00:27:07,876 So I'm bouncing around a little bit, but I think I 337 00:27:07,900 --> 00:27:12,320 want to get on now to some stories of the early years, 338 00:27:13,310 --> 00:27:16,490 unless you have some specific questions that you want me to answer. 339 00:27:17,420 --> 00:27:19,670 Don't step on the brakes. Keep going. Okay. 340 00:27:20,630 --> 00:27:23,679 So Blue Mountain Lookout is where I have most of my lookout 341 00:27:23,703 --> 00:27:26,540 memories because I spent the most of the time there. 342 00:27:26,540 --> 00:27:31,493 And as I learned from Dad for this interview to Mountain 343 00:27:31,517 --> 00:27:36,290 Lookout was a unique one of a kind type of lookout. 344 00:27:36,980 --> 00:27:41,423 Apparently it was built for the movie Red Skies 345 00:27:41,447 --> 00:27:45,890 over Montana and it was put on Davis Point first. 346 00:27:47,060 --> 00:27:55,250 And the way it was designed was to look more like a observation tower for aircraft. 347 00:27:56,090 --> 00:27:59,888 And my understanding and so it had a flat top, so 348 00:27:59,912 --> 00:28:03,710 it really didn't fit into any specific category. 349 00:28:04,190 --> 00:28:06,650 Now I should reference request textbook. 350 00:28:06,950 --> 00:28:10,208 I did not have access to that before and he may actually give 351 00:28:10,232 --> 00:28:13,490 a classification for the Blue Mountain Lookout style or design, 352 00:28:14,150 --> 00:28:18,131 but I do believe that it was a rather unique one 353 00:28:18,155 --> 00:28:22,730 and I haven't seen anyone quite like it in our area. 354 00:28:23,960 --> 00:28:29,090 Have either of you seen anything quite like Blue Mountain Lookout? I've not been there. 355 00:28:29,090 --> 00:28:33,710 I do have regrets sitting here. I could just see what he says about it if. 356 00:28:34,160 --> 00:28:38,198 Yeah, why don't you do that while I'm talking? That would be great. 357 00:28:38,222 --> 00:28:42,260 So what was unique about Blue Mountain is it had lots of visitors, 358 00:28:42,260 --> 00:28:46,672 and those visitors could drive a 12 mile dirt road from 359 00:28:46,696 --> 00:28:52,010 Missoula all the way up to the summit and right to the lookout. 360 00:28:52,490 --> 00:28:54,900 So that meant a lot of people would come up. 361 00:28:54,920 --> 00:28:58,628 But then there is, of course, a number of people who were 362 00:28:58,652 --> 00:29:02,360 too afraid to climb the tower so they would stay below. 363 00:29:02,360 --> 00:29:08,450 But we would get, you know, anywhere from, oh, 50 to 60 in a day. 364 00:29:08,450 --> 00:29:12,773 Sometimes it seemed like in the later years, on the 365 00:29:12,797 --> 00:29:17,120 weekends, that I would say more like 25 per day. 366 00:29:17,900 --> 00:29:22,613 During the weekday we had one or two occasions where we had 367 00:29:22,637 --> 00:29:27,350 close to 100 when busses would come up there with groups. 368 00:29:29,210 --> 00:29:34,538 But Blue Mountain also had a a pretty unique setup in that there was 369 00:29:34,562 --> 00:29:39,890 an observatory that the University of Montana owned that was just, 370 00:29:40,500 --> 00:29:44,278 you know, 300 yards from the lookout. And that 371 00:29:44,302 --> 00:29:48,080 observatory was used for looking at the stars. 372 00:29:48,090 --> 00:29:52,541 But my time there in the seventies and the eighties, it was used 373 00:29:52,565 --> 00:29:57,440 primarily in the shoulder seasons when the lookout wasn't up there. 374 00:29:57,440 --> 00:29:59,453 And that's partly because of lighting issues. You 375 00:29:59,477 --> 00:30:01,490 know, it's too much light here in the summertime. 376 00:30:02,510 --> 00:30:05,300 So I never got a chance to go into it. 377 00:30:05,450 --> 00:30:10,268 But in later years, that ownership of that observatory was turned over 378 00:30:10,292 --> 00:30:15,109 to, I believe, a private group or at least a nonprofit of some sort. 379 00:30:15,110 --> 00:30:19,317 And then they started having public viewing sessions there, 380 00:30:19,341 --> 00:30:23,329 and and Dad was able to participate in those and see, 381 00:30:23,330 --> 00:30:26,618 like the rings of Saturn and other cool things like that from 382 00:30:26,642 --> 00:30:29,930 that very powerful telescope that was in that observatory. 383 00:30:32,990 --> 00:30:36,713 The thing that Dad told me about as a youngster 384 00:30:36,737 --> 00:30:40,459 being up on the lookout is that I apparently I 385 00:30:40,460 --> 00:30:43,538 loved entertaining visitors and I would proudly 386 00:30:43,562 --> 00:30:46,640 tell them about all the different landmarks, 387 00:30:48,050 --> 00:30:51,528 you know, pointing out different peaks, different 388 00:30:51,552 --> 00:30:54,740 key things in Missoula that you could see, 389 00:30:55,250 --> 00:31:01,100 telling them stories about fun, things that had happened, wildlife that we had seen. 390 00:31:02,240 --> 00:31:06,008 And and speaking of which, to go into the Segway 391 00:31:06,032 --> 00:31:09,800 on that, the wildlife that I did see on that was. 392 00:31:12,690 --> 00:31:16,788 You know, you saw basically everything that a typical lookout 393 00:31:16,812 --> 00:31:20,910 would see, like the deer, the elk, lots of ground squirrels. 394 00:31:21,930 --> 00:31:29,530 But I do very clearly remember one time. It was a calm day, middle of the day. 395 00:31:30,190 --> 00:31:35,919 And I just had this strange feeling that something was walking up to the lookout. 396 00:31:35,920 --> 00:31:40,720 And I looked out and there was a mountain lion walking underneath the lookout. 397 00:31:41,110 --> 00:31:46,120 And it was very fascinating to me that I had this intuition to look when I did, 398 00:31:46,660 --> 00:31:49,265 because it was completely silent and it was just moving 399 00:31:49,289 --> 00:31:52,330 right through the area and it had no interest in the lookout. 400 00:31:52,990 --> 00:31:58,483 But I happened to get up at that time to look at the right time to 401 00:31:58,507 --> 00:32:04,000 see it, and then other memories I have driving up to the lookout. 402 00:32:04,000 --> 00:32:08,983 I did see a bobcat and but I couldn't differentiate whether it 403 00:32:09,007 --> 00:32:13,990 was a bobcat or a lynx because it was a very quick glance at it, 404 00:32:14,620 --> 00:32:22,990 didn't see if it had tusks in its years. But yeah, so the thing with the wildlife, 405 00:32:23,140 --> 00:32:28,558 the Gophers were my entertainment as a kid because I would take 406 00:32:28,582 --> 00:32:34,000 up boxes or buckets of rocks up to the 40 foot high catwalk, 407 00:32:34,660 --> 00:32:38,500 and I would throw rocks at the gophers, never hitting them. 408 00:32:39,430 --> 00:32:41,998 You know, I don't think I ever killed a golfer 409 00:32:42,022 --> 00:32:44,590 in my life or in that period of time of my life. 410 00:32:45,970 --> 00:32:50,260 But I sure made sure I had a lot of fun trying to to get them. 411 00:32:52,540 --> 00:32:55,840 And and then the other thing that I would do up there. 412 00:32:57,690 --> 00:33:02,489 I made paper airplanes and different designs of paper airplanes. 413 00:33:02,490 --> 00:33:07,770 Fly them off there and then see which one could stay in the air the longest. 414 00:33:08,820 --> 00:33:15,180 Use different kinds of weighting systems and paper clips on the underside of them. 415 00:33:16,080 --> 00:33:19,229 It was fun. It was it was a lot of fun to design those dad. 416 00:33:19,230 --> 00:33:23,726 Help me with those things. Other things that dad helped me 417 00:33:23,750 --> 00:33:28,800 remember that I loved to do is I would play with Lincoln Logs. 418 00:33:29,760 --> 00:33:34,008 And he taught me how to make hooked rugs and those 419 00:33:34,032 --> 00:33:38,280 hard drives burned up in the house fire of 1990. 420 00:33:38,280 --> 00:33:42,154 But we had a lot of those little artifacts that I probably would 421 00:33:42,178 --> 00:33:45,990 be carting around to this day if we hadn't had a house fire. 422 00:33:50,130 --> 00:33:56,750 I also developed a love for reading and early on I would read dog stories. 423 00:33:56,760 --> 00:33:59,220 I just was fascinated by dog stories. 424 00:33:59,820 --> 00:34:03,179 There was an author by the name of Albert Pace in Turkey 425 00:34:03,203 --> 00:34:06,930 who wrote stories about colleagues that caught my interest. 426 00:34:07,470 --> 00:34:11,190 And then later it was sled dog stories. 427 00:34:11,200 --> 00:34:17,990 So I loved reading about who works by Jack London and Never Cried Wolf. 428 00:34:18,000 --> 00:34:20,168 And then I found another author whose name 429 00:34:20,192 --> 00:34:22,680 forgets me, but I would read about the North. 430 00:34:22,680 --> 00:34:26,600 And so for me, Alaska became the place that I wanted to go. 431 00:34:26,610 --> 00:34:29,095 As I was sitting on top of that wonderful 432 00:34:29,119 --> 00:34:32,040 lookout in Montana, I was dreaming of Alaska. 433 00:34:34,230 --> 00:34:37,350 But since then, I've discovered Montana is better than Alaska. 434 00:34:39,030 --> 00:34:49,160 In my opinion. I looked up crest for people who don't know who he is. 435 00:34:49,170 --> 00:34:54,884 He is the author of Fire Lookouts of the Pacific Northwest 436 00:34:54,908 --> 00:35:00,120 and basically the guru for anything lookouts here. 437 00:35:00,570 --> 00:35:08,879 And he does say that Blue Mountain. And it is different, as you say, in 1966. 438 00:35:08,880 --> 00:35:14,868 So 41 foot towers, that means treated timber, I believe, 439 00:35:14,892 --> 00:35:20,880 I'm not sure with non typical slant windowed flat cap. 440 00:35:22,320 --> 00:35:26,253 So I think that was the key thing was the non typical windows 441 00:35:26,277 --> 00:35:30,210 is because they were slanted inwards and they were big panels, 442 00:35:30,990 --> 00:35:34,668 which as Shell has in his picture behind his 443 00:35:34,692 --> 00:35:38,370 head, that's a looks like a flat top lookout, 444 00:35:38,700 --> 00:35:46,229 but with many small pane windows and not slanted so that that particular design 445 00:35:46,230 --> 00:35:54,330 really made it nice because it didn't it cut down the glare and in it made it a, 446 00:35:54,900 --> 00:35:57,468 I think, cooler in the summertime as well because 447 00:35:57,492 --> 00:36:00,060 it had a little bit more shading from the the roof. 448 00:36:02,910 --> 00:36:07,193 But back to life at Blue Mountain. One of the things that Dad 449 00:36:07,217 --> 00:36:11,500 and I would do in the evenings at the right time of the year, 450 00:36:11,500 --> 00:36:16,000 which was typically August, is we would go down and pick huckleberries. 451 00:36:16,570 --> 00:36:23,500 And Dad was a master of huckleberry pies, particularly huckleberry peach pies. 452 00:36:24,040 --> 00:36:26,683 And to this day, there's hardly anything that 453 00:36:26,707 --> 00:36:29,350 beats a good huckleberry peach pie from Dad, 454 00:36:29,920 --> 00:36:34,270 because dad also knows how to make crusts particularly well. 455 00:36:34,280 --> 00:36:37,008 So they're very flaky and delicious. And then the 456 00:36:37,032 --> 00:36:39,760 contents of huckleberries and peaches are perfect. 457 00:36:42,820 --> 00:36:47,500 So we would do some hikes in the evening to around the lookout. 458 00:36:47,650 --> 00:36:52,498 And I think that helped me get the hiking bug early 459 00:36:52,522 --> 00:36:57,370 on, gave me the confidence to know I can go hiking. 460 00:36:58,090 --> 00:37:03,910 And which reminds me of another story. 461 00:37:05,090 --> 00:37:09,745 My dad never had an interest in backpacking and at that time Mom was too 462 00:37:09,769 --> 00:37:14,950 busy with tending to the garden in the house to be interested in backpacking. 463 00:37:15,730 --> 00:37:18,493 But I was really interested in figuring this stuff out because I 464 00:37:18,517 --> 00:37:21,280 read survival stories as well as one of my entertainment things. 465 00:37:22,060 --> 00:37:25,826 And so we had a cousin, Mark, who was visiting from 466 00:37:25,850 --> 00:37:30,070 Pennsylvania, and Mark and I wanted to go backpacking. 467 00:37:30,080 --> 00:37:33,858 So we looked at the map and we figured we could leave from Blue 468 00:37:33,882 --> 00:37:37,660 Mountain Lookout and walk down to a creek along the logging road. 469 00:37:37,900 --> 00:37:44,190 And we would set up camp and Dad just let us figure out everything ourselves. 470 00:37:44,200 --> 00:37:49,048 And when he looked at what we had packed, which was cans of 471 00:37:49,072 --> 00:37:53,919 soup and cans of beans and sardine cans and all that stuff, 472 00:37:53,920 --> 00:37:58,479 and he just chuckled and said, Sure, go ahead. 473 00:37:58,480 --> 00:38:02,218 Oh, yeah, you can take your ax, too, if you want. And 474 00:38:02,242 --> 00:38:05,980 Mark and I so Mark was a couple of years older than me. 475 00:38:07,220 --> 00:38:11,470 We started up our packs and I was probably, I don't know, maybe. 476 00:38:13,030 --> 00:38:18,958 14 at the time when he was 16 and we had heavy packs on and walked 477 00:38:18,982 --> 00:38:24,910 down the mountain and found this logging road with a tree across it. 478 00:38:25,300 --> 00:38:27,220 And we were going to make our own shelter. 479 00:38:27,280 --> 00:38:33,448 So we cut the limbs and just made it a frame against the downed tree and 480 00:38:33,472 --> 00:38:39,640 built ourselves a nice fire and then started eating all our canned foods, 481 00:38:40,180 --> 00:38:44,020 which we had to get rid of a lot of canned food if we're going to make it up the hill. 482 00:38:44,050 --> 00:38:47,410 But needless to say, the uphill part was still pretty strenuous. 483 00:38:51,140 --> 00:38:56,060 When I was nine years old, Dad started teaching me how to cook on lookouts, 484 00:38:56,690 --> 00:39:00,609 and we first started on an old style wood cook stove, 485 00:39:00,633 --> 00:39:04,400 and I think you probably have seen those before. 486 00:39:04,920 --> 00:39:09,661 They're just these beautiful antiques nowadays, but they had a 487 00:39:09,685 --> 00:39:15,050 firebox on one side and then a cooktop and then an oven underneath. 488 00:39:15,620 --> 00:39:19,643 And Dad taught me how to get the fires right with that, move 489 00:39:19,667 --> 00:39:23,690 the pots around on the different parts of the wood stove. 490 00:39:25,730 --> 00:39:30,258 But as you can imagine, some summers, if you get a little warm and, 491 00:39:30,282 --> 00:39:34,810 you know, having to cook on that cook stove wasn't the best thing. 492 00:39:34,820 --> 00:39:40,730 So we did have propane backup and we would use that more often than not. 493 00:39:41,450 --> 00:39:45,773 But I developed a love for cooking and Dad was really great and patient 494 00:39:45,797 --> 00:39:50,120 because he had all the time in the world, so he would just turn me loose. 495 00:39:50,120 --> 00:39:52,475 On designing the meals before we went up on 496 00:39:52,499 --> 00:39:55,249 the lookout and then we'd go shopping together. 497 00:39:55,250 --> 00:40:00,524 And then when we were up there, he helped me with the details 498 00:40:00,548 --> 00:40:06,350 of it, but I learned to then on my own, how to cook with spices. 499 00:40:06,740 --> 00:40:12,455 Mom wasn't big on spices, so I would bring up a huge, elaborate collection 500 00:40:12,479 --> 00:40:17,959 of spices and make foods that some would probably make you throw up. 501 00:40:17,960 --> 00:40:21,548 But other ones were pretty tasty. So I got an understanding 502 00:40:21,572 --> 00:40:25,160 of how things work together and cooking and and to this day, 503 00:40:25,670 --> 00:40:29,153 cooking is fun and creative to me, and I enjoy 504 00:40:29,177 --> 00:40:32,660 it thanks to those early years on the lookout. 505 00:40:36,970 --> 00:40:40,680 I'm going to go through some random memories of those earlier 506 00:40:40,704 --> 00:40:44,290 stages on that and just kind of hit on different things. 507 00:40:44,290 --> 00:40:48,538 And then I'm going to go through some stories about my fire crew years 508 00:40:48,562 --> 00:40:52,810 because I think those are interesting and relevant to this conversation. 509 00:40:53,320 --> 00:40:56,028 Before I get into those, do you have any specific questions 510 00:40:56,052 --> 00:40:58,479 or I'm heading in the right direction for you now? 511 00:40:58,480 --> 00:41:02,890 I think you're doing fine, Bryan. I did a thought came to my mind that. 512 00:41:05,360 --> 00:41:08,962 If your dad made huckleberry peach pies on those old wood 513 00:41:08,986 --> 00:41:13,040 cookstoves, you had to know how to make pies on those babies. 514 00:41:13,590 --> 00:41:16,364 Yeah, it was an art. You had to get that temperature 515 00:41:16,388 --> 00:41:19,489 right in the oven, and you had to keep rotating things. 516 00:41:19,490 --> 00:41:23,174 And yeah, you learn to be patient. And being patient 517 00:41:23,198 --> 00:41:26,810 on the lookout makes sense because you got time. 518 00:41:27,860 --> 00:41:33,450 Exactly. So that worked really well. All right. 519 00:41:33,890 --> 00:41:38,060 Do you have any problems baking bread? 520 00:41:38,090 --> 00:41:41,910 I talked with a couple of people in interviews. Who? 521 00:41:42,150 --> 00:41:46,539 I mean, they had this they had similar problems, but different 522 00:41:46,563 --> 00:41:50,880 lookouts and different times where they were baking bread. 523 00:41:51,060 --> 00:41:56,422 And it seemed like only half of the stove would work and so 524 00:41:56,446 --> 00:42:02,550 they'd have half a baked loaf or whatever going right like that? 525 00:42:02,820 --> 00:42:08,040 Yes, definitely. We definitely had to rotate everything all the time. 526 00:42:08,040 --> 00:42:09,720 And that was what Dad taught me was like, 527 00:42:10,020 --> 00:42:15,123 you can do really good cooking with on a on a stove if you just 528 00:42:15,147 --> 00:42:20,250 know how to stay with it and you can't just plop it in the oven. 529 00:42:20,790 --> 00:42:24,243 You've got to you've got to keep it moving, keep it rotating. Know 530 00:42:24,267 --> 00:42:27,720 how the the kind of the idiosyncrasies of that particular oven are. 531 00:42:27,990 --> 00:42:33,330 Each of those ovens had a personality that you learn. And and and that was the art. 532 00:42:33,330 --> 00:42:35,970 And now you really understood the art of it. 533 00:42:36,360 --> 00:42:42,033 I had a great Aunt Sadie Coffman, who lived in the Swan Valley, and she 534 00:42:42,057 --> 00:42:47,730 cooked on one of those stoves until she had to move out in her eighties. 535 00:42:48,600 --> 00:42:52,740 She was a master of that, and it was just fun to see her cook on that stove. 536 00:42:54,960 --> 00:42:59,280 That stove on Blue Mountain Lookout, unfortunately, was vandalized. 537 00:43:00,390 --> 00:43:04,530 Being so close to Missoula, there was always problems with vandalism on Blue Mountain. 538 00:43:04,920 --> 00:43:09,573 And one year we came up there and that whole beautiful cook stove 539 00:43:09,597 --> 00:43:14,250 had been thrown off the lookout and it was in pieces down below. 540 00:43:14,280 --> 00:43:17,370 Now, what would possess somebody to do that? I don't know. 541 00:43:18,120 --> 00:43:21,149 And there was always windows shot out, things like that. 542 00:43:21,150 --> 00:43:26,840 But that was at a time when they didn't gate the road where they do now. 543 00:43:26,850 --> 00:43:32,271 Right now it's gated about a couple of miles down the road at a logical 544 00:43:32,295 --> 00:43:37,560 spot that where the main the lookout turns off from the main road. 545 00:43:38,680 --> 00:43:42,670 And and since they've done that dating, there's been a lot less vandalism. 546 00:43:42,760 --> 00:43:45,598 But it used to be that people could drive to a gate, but 547 00:43:45,622 --> 00:43:48,460 they could see the lookout, so they would just walk on up. 548 00:43:49,510 --> 00:43:54,070 And that was a problem, in fact. 549 00:43:56,260 --> 00:44:01,450 One of my early experiences, too, was In the Sea. 550 00:44:01,450 --> 00:44:08,473 It would have been 1976, I think it was around that time we 551 00:44:08,497 --> 00:44:15,520 still had the old crank phone up on the mountain lookout, 552 00:44:16,150 --> 00:44:21,010 and that's how we could still call anywhere in the United States with it. 553 00:44:22,540 --> 00:44:25,089 So first the background on that story. 554 00:44:25,090 --> 00:44:29,639 That old crank phone would connect to an operator in Missoula, 555 00:44:29,663 --> 00:44:34,660 and frequently the operator would pick up and say, Where are you? 556 00:44:36,910 --> 00:44:38,740 Wait, what's where is Blue Mountain Lookout? 557 00:44:39,280 --> 00:44:42,148 And of course, we would have to give them the phone number of where 558 00:44:42,172 --> 00:44:45,040 we wanted to talk, and then they would punch it in and we would talk. 559 00:44:46,420 --> 00:44:51,133 Well, apparently around that time, there was some folks 560 00:44:51,157 --> 00:44:55,870 who were threatening to blow up government installations, 561 00:44:56,260 --> 00:45:01,573 and there was an alert that came out earlier, like a week or two before 562 00:45:01,597 --> 00:45:06,910 that, there was this random threat that was given to the Forest Service. 563 00:45:07,870 --> 00:45:12,370 Well, when you know it, one night when Dad and I were up there, 564 00:45:12,370 --> 00:45:15,763 we we didn't closed the trap door on the place because 565 00:45:15,787 --> 00:45:19,179 we never had problems with people visiting at night. 566 00:45:19,180 --> 00:45:22,300 But we did lock the door to the lookout itself. 567 00:45:22,890 --> 00:45:29,140 Well, in the middle of the night, a whole group of people come up to the lookout and. 568 00:45:30,350 --> 00:45:33,950 They are drunker than a skunk, most of them. 569 00:45:34,340 --> 00:45:39,079 And they climb on up to look out. And we didn't have the trapdoor down. 570 00:45:39,080 --> 00:45:41,438 So they came up to the catwalk and they're peering in 571 00:45:41,462 --> 00:45:43,820 there, banging on the when is what you doing in there? 572 00:45:44,690 --> 00:45:49,879 And I was pretty nervous in bed there and watching Dad. 573 00:45:49,880 --> 00:45:53,330 And Dad was dad didn't say much to them. 574 00:45:53,810 --> 00:45:57,663 But then when they went down the catwalk, he got on the 575 00:45:57,687 --> 00:46:01,540 old crank phone and got to the sheriff's department. 576 00:46:01,550 --> 00:46:05,030 They said, you know what? The threats have been recently? 577 00:46:05,030 --> 00:46:07,464 And he says, you better believe I know what the threats 578 00:46:07,488 --> 00:46:09,740 are. And they said, well, you stay on the phone. 579 00:46:10,460 --> 00:46:15,380 And so these people then came back up the catwalk, saw dad on the phone. 580 00:46:15,380 --> 00:46:17,759 They said, Oh, we better get out of here. So they 581 00:46:17,783 --> 00:46:20,660 headed down while the sheriff was coming on up the road. 582 00:46:21,080 --> 00:46:27,409 And apparently the sheriff stopped 12 different vehicles on the way up as it 583 00:46:27,410 --> 00:46:31,160 was heading on up the road and and stopped and talked to each one of them. 584 00:46:31,160 --> 00:46:33,920 And, of course, none of them confessed to 585 00:46:33,944 --> 00:46:37,190 being anywhere up here but up in the lookout. 586 00:46:37,820 --> 00:46:42,320 But they were just people having a good time. But it sure gave Dad and I would scare. 587 00:46:42,740 --> 00:46:47,603 And from then on we kept the trap door closed. But Dad even has 588 00:46:47,627 --> 00:46:52,490 stories of people climbing around the cloud and the trap door, 589 00:46:52,850 --> 00:46:58,010 which would involve a lot of exposure and that would be very nerve wracking. 590 00:46:58,580 --> 00:47:02,198 And people would climb around that closed trap door in 591 00:47:02,222 --> 00:47:05,840 the off season and get up there and vandalize things. 592 00:47:05,840 --> 00:47:12,560 So vandalism in the area in Blue Mountain was a bad problem. 593 00:47:13,040 --> 00:47:15,649 But since they painted it, it's interestingly, 594 00:47:15,650 --> 00:47:19,043 it's not been used and it hasn't been shot up and it's in 595 00:47:19,067 --> 00:47:22,460 a lot better condition after multiple years of without use, 596 00:47:23,060 --> 00:47:26,300 from what I understand in conversations with Dad. 597 00:47:28,190 --> 00:47:33,349 So those were some early scary memories of being on the lookout. 598 00:47:33,350 --> 00:47:37,720 But I don't have much trauma associated with that. 599 00:47:37,744 --> 00:47:42,650 Things that I do remember, good memories that I have. 600 00:47:43,220 --> 00:47:46,403 Dad would have these late evening conversations 601 00:47:46,427 --> 00:47:49,610 on the Forest Service radios with other lookouts. 602 00:47:50,210 --> 00:47:53,794 Who the people that I remember him talking to in 603 00:47:53,818 --> 00:47:57,860 particular were Virginia Vincent on Stark Mountain. 604 00:47:59,030 --> 00:48:05,665 Virginia had a very familiar handle when she did check ins because she 605 00:48:05,689 --> 00:48:13,190 would go star, look out and forever I would think of that mountain as stark. 606 00:48:15,230 --> 00:48:20,489 And other folks like Alan Rogers, who was on Williams Peak Lookout 607 00:48:20,513 --> 00:48:25,610 and then later Eddie Peak, way up in the Thompson Falls area. 608 00:48:26,210 --> 00:48:31,687 It was hard to get him consistently, but what they would do sometimes is 609 00:48:31,711 --> 00:48:37,730 they would have us call into public radio on the request hour late at night, 610 00:48:37,730 --> 00:48:42,578 and they'd have us dial in their requests of classical music that 611 00:48:42,602 --> 00:48:47,450 they wanted to hear on the radio so we could do that for them. 612 00:48:49,470 --> 00:48:54,510 Other things I remember is learning how to read a Forest Service map. 613 00:48:55,080 --> 00:48:57,828 Dad spent a lot of time with me. Whenever there 614 00:48:57,852 --> 00:49:01,020 was a fire or whenever there is any other activity. 615 00:49:01,890 --> 00:49:05,268 He would teach me how to look at that generic forest 616 00:49:05,292 --> 00:49:08,670 service map that only had peaks and streams on it. 617 00:49:09,510 --> 00:49:14,418 But based on the peaks in the streams, he could help me identify the 618 00:49:14,442 --> 00:49:19,350 areas that I was looking and so that I learned how to get a picture, 619 00:49:19,350 --> 00:49:22,440 a three dimensional picture in my mind, just from a Forest Service map. 620 00:49:23,310 --> 00:49:27,390 And I think that's where my love of maps started. And it still is. 621 00:49:28,470 --> 00:49:31,278 I can spend hours just looking at maps. In fact, when 622 00:49:31,302 --> 00:49:34,110 I'm hiking in the backcountry, I don't carry a book. 623 00:49:34,260 --> 00:49:38,343 I just look at maps and the maps take me on adventures and 624 00:49:38,367 --> 00:49:42,450 places that I just want to go sometime or dream of going. 625 00:49:43,050 --> 00:49:45,895 But it gives me a visualization of what it's like in 626 00:49:45,919 --> 00:49:49,100 that area just by looking at even a Forest Service map. 627 00:49:50,280 --> 00:49:53,853 And so later in the years, I took pride in being able 628 00:49:53,877 --> 00:49:57,450 to call in fires in the quarter of the quarter section. 629 00:49:58,650 --> 00:50:03,930 When looking at a a section on township and range on a fire. 630 00:50:04,410 --> 00:50:07,680 And you know, sometimes I'd be off, but they would let me know. 631 00:50:08,340 --> 00:50:11,104 But it was great to see just how close I could get them to that 632 00:50:11,128 --> 00:50:14,250 fire, even though they could clearly see it before I needed to have. 633 00:50:14,430 --> 00:50:18,450 They needed to have that level of detail. So 634 00:50:18,474 --> 00:50:23,150 other things I learned to do was reading clouds. 635 00:50:23,660 --> 00:50:26,080 First, I took a real fascination in clouds. 636 00:50:26,090 --> 00:50:30,098 Dad would have a cloud chart and he would help me to understand what 637 00:50:30,122 --> 00:50:34,130 the different clouds indicated as possible weather systems coming. 638 00:50:36,170 --> 00:50:40,013 We would also take humidity with the wet bulb and dry bulb, 639 00:50:40,037 --> 00:50:43,880 and I'm not sure you guys have any experience with that. 640 00:50:43,910 --> 00:50:47,580 Did you ever take weather with. Right. Draw light all drywall? Yes. 641 00:50:47,830 --> 00:50:55,850 Yeah. Yeah. And and then learning to differentiate water dogs from smoke. 642 00:50:56,930 --> 00:51:03,520 And I do admit there was one time I called in a water God cow to confess those things. 643 00:51:03,530 --> 00:51:06,740 Even with all those years of experience, I did call in a water dog. 644 00:51:07,430 --> 00:51:11,870 I think there's no no look out in existence as it calls in the water dog. 645 00:51:12,740 --> 00:51:18,370 And probably my favorite cloud was always the cumulus over timer's. 646 00:51:23,330 --> 00:51:32,120 Oh, that's great. Well, I do know one time and this would have been 19. 647 00:51:33,770 --> 00:51:38,889 Probably get the timeline right. 1988, that was the 648 00:51:38,913 --> 00:51:44,750 year of the big fires and and big fires in Yellowstone. 649 00:51:45,290 --> 00:51:49,539 But on specific to Blue Mountain, there was a lightning storm 650 00:51:49,563 --> 00:51:54,380 that went through in June and it struck the top of Black Mountain. 651 00:51:54,500 --> 00:51:57,978 Black Mountain was this small peak that was just below 652 00:51:58,002 --> 00:52:01,480 Blue Mountain and was probably about 2 to 3 miles away. 653 00:52:01,490 --> 00:52:04,243 I'd have to go look at the map to get that straight, 654 00:52:04,267 --> 00:52:07,400 but it was pretty close and I saw a puff of smoke go up. 655 00:52:08,270 --> 00:52:13,790 So I called dispatch and reported it and they sent a helicopter over. 656 00:52:13,790 --> 00:52:18,978 And by the time the helicopter got up, they couldn't see anything. And then 657 00:52:19,002 --> 00:52:24,190 four weeks later, I saw a puff of smoke in the same spot in the morning. 658 00:52:24,580 --> 00:52:27,790 And I called in. They sent a helicopter up. 659 00:52:28,870 --> 00:52:34,680 Couldn't find it. By the time they got there, six weeks later, puff of smoke came up. 660 00:52:34,740 --> 00:52:38,860 But this was more like a column called the called them in. 661 00:52:38,950 --> 00:52:42,430 They sent a helicopter up. Oh, yeah. Got a fire go on there. 662 00:52:43,060 --> 00:52:45,370 And they landed. And at that point, 663 00:52:45,430 --> 00:52:50,873 that fire had crawled around for six weeks in the dust and it was 664 00:52:50,897 --> 00:52:56,340 over an acre in size just from that smoldering for that six weeks. 665 00:52:56,350 --> 00:53:02,488 And that, again, taught me just how in this particular area, how fire can 666 00:53:02,512 --> 00:53:08,650 be so persistent and it can still creep along for for long periods of time. 667 00:53:10,960 --> 00:53:14,710 And that reminds me of another story on the fire. 668 00:53:16,180 --> 00:53:22,899 And when I was a kid, it was January in Potomac, and we had 22 acres. 669 00:53:22,900 --> 00:53:25,753 And I love starting fires. And Dad says, Jerry, you 670 00:53:25,777 --> 00:53:28,630 can go ahead and do whatever you want out there. 671 00:53:28,640 --> 00:53:31,750 So I found the stump and I started a fire. 672 00:53:31,750 --> 00:53:35,053 And this is beginning of January and I, I don't know, maybe 673 00:53:35,077 --> 00:53:38,379 marshmallows or something on it and played in the woods. 674 00:53:38,380 --> 00:53:43,140 And then I let the fire go. Just didn't put it out because there was snow all around. 675 00:53:43,240 --> 00:53:48,610 Didn't have to worry. And we went through a cold snap where it got down to 20 below. 676 00:53:49,060 --> 00:53:54,040 And that fire smoldered in that stuff for a couple of weeks in the middle of winter. 677 00:53:54,250 --> 00:53:59,278 And that it again, kind of illustrated to me the power 678 00:53:59,302 --> 00:54:04,330 of fire in in the rotted timber and in the understory. 679 00:54:04,840 --> 00:54:08,398 So that when I did become a firefighter, I could understand why they really 680 00:54:08,422 --> 00:54:11,980 wanted us to dig down to mineral soil whenever we were making a fire line. 681 00:54:15,040 --> 00:54:18,130 So going back to lookout memories. 682 00:54:20,590 --> 00:54:27,940 I do remember a fire I saw, which was about ten miles from the Blue Mountain Lookout. 683 00:54:28,000 --> 00:54:31,460 We had some family friends visiting my. 684 00:54:31,900 --> 00:54:35,578 I was married at that time because I was in graduate 685 00:54:35,602 --> 00:54:39,280 school and one of Heidi's cousins was visiting and. 686 00:54:40,520 --> 00:54:43,098 I was watching an area where there was a logging project 687 00:54:43,122 --> 00:54:45,700 and it was pretty dry right at that time of the year. 688 00:54:46,660 --> 00:54:50,518 And I saw a smoke start up and called it in 689 00:54:50,542 --> 00:54:54,400 right away because I knew it was really dry. 690 00:54:55,270 --> 00:54:58,776 They need to get on that right away. And within 691 00:54:58,800 --> 00:55:02,230 10 minutes that thing had ripped ten acres. 692 00:55:02,800 --> 00:55:06,763 And I don't know if it if it burned over vehicles or not, but I do know 693 00:55:06,787 --> 00:55:10,750 that that logging operation wasn't the same logging operation after that. 694 00:55:11,890 --> 00:55:16,750 And that gave me a real firsthand experience on just how fast fires can move. 695 00:55:18,580 --> 00:55:21,508 But I also had some experience with that in the in 696 00:55:21,532 --> 00:55:24,460 fighting fires earlier before that particular story. 697 00:55:28,090 --> 00:55:31,280 And. Oh, boy, I'm just going to keep jumping around with stories. 698 00:55:31,420 --> 00:55:37,673 Please feel free to interrupt. This is great. One 699 00:55:37,697 --> 00:55:43,950 of the lookout stories that I have goes back to. 700 00:55:46,490 --> 00:55:50,223 The nineties when I was really taking a hankering to lookouts, 701 00:55:50,247 --> 00:55:53,979 I wanted to hike to as many different lookouts as I could find. 702 00:55:53,980 --> 00:55:58,240 The abandoned ones were interesting to me, as well as the ones that were manned. 703 00:55:59,470 --> 00:56:03,760 And my mother, Myrtle, was also very much into hiking. 704 00:56:03,760 --> 00:56:07,213 By that time we took a hike in the rattlesnake 705 00:56:07,237 --> 00:56:10,690 wilderness area to Boulder Mountain Lookout, 706 00:56:11,590 --> 00:56:17,590 and that was pretty much dead middle of the wilderness area. 707 00:56:17,590 --> 00:56:21,583 So it was very remote. When we got up to that lookout, 708 00:56:21,607 --> 00:56:25,600 we discovered that it really hadn't been maintained. 709 00:56:25,620 --> 00:56:28,831 The windows were gone out of it. The shell was 710 00:56:28,855 --> 00:56:32,640 still there, but the lightning net was still there. 711 00:56:32,820 --> 00:56:36,749 So the lightning that is that copper wire that comes down on each corner 712 00:56:36,773 --> 00:56:40,590 of the lookout and it comes to a peak that the roof of the lookout. 713 00:56:40,590 --> 00:56:44,670 So in case lightning strikes, that lookout directs it all to the ground. 714 00:56:45,880 --> 00:56:51,208 Well, earlier in that summer I had been on West for Butte 715 00:56:51,232 --> 00:56:56,560 Lookout and I was helping to put it back together after 716 00:56:56,560 --> 00:56:59,368 they had done some remodeling of it and they had 717 00:56:59,392 --> 00:57:02,860 painted it and the lightning net hadn't been put up yet, 718 00:57:03,430 --> 00:57:06,880 and nobody was taking that very seriously. 719 00:57:07,300 --> 00:57:11,038 And I tried to put the lightning net back up and 720 00:57:11,062 --> 00:57:14,800 discovered it was missing a few key point parts. 721 00:57:16,430 --> 00:57:19,611 Well, when I was up on the Boulder Mountain Lookout, I saw, 722 00:57:19,635 --> 00:57:22,760 hey, there is a lightning net that's completely intact. 723 00:57:22,880 --> 00:57:26,213 I think I'm going to take some of these parts that I need because I 724 00:57:26,237 --> 00:57:29,570 don't think this lookout is something to be worried about anymore. 725 00:57:30,380 --> 00:57:33,783 So without any Forest Service permission, I took these 726 00:57:33,807 --> 00:57:37,790 parts and I transported them over to Westword Butte Lookout, 727 00:57:38,450 --> 00:57:41,554 feeling that I was justified in doing so 728 00:57:41,578 --> 00:57:45,560 because the West for Butte Lookout was a forest, 729 00:57:46,100 --> 00:57:48,820 a U.S. forest rental, and if that didn't have a 730 00:57:48,844 --> 00:57:52,159 proper lightning net on it when somebody was in there, 731 00:57:52,160 --> 00:57:54,650 that would be a very bad thing if lightning struck it. 732 00:57:55,460 --> 00:57:58,197 So I felt justified in stealing from one place and 733 00:57:58,221 --> 00:58:01,520 putting it on the other, but I did it without permission. 734 00:58:02,540 --> 00:58:05,960 And three years later, or maybe more, 735 00:58:06,260 --> 00:58:09,560 the Boulder Mountain Lookout burned completely in one of the 736 00:58:09,584 --> 00:58:13,220 hot fires that burned in the rattlesnake during the early 2000. 737 00:58:13,370 --> 00:58:16,480 So I don't have any regrets of stealing that lightning. 738 00:58:20,120 --> 00:58:25,688 And okay, I'm going to go on to some stories of fighting 739 00:58:25,712 --> 00:58:31,280 fires, first on the district crew, then the hotshot crew, 740 00:58:31,910 --> 00:58:36,656 and then some of my prevention tech years look out relief 741 00:58:36,680 --> 00:58:42,020 years and and then some other stories at the end of all that. 742 00:58:42,080 --> 00:58:47,030 So how are we doing for time for everybody? Well, we're at an hour now, Bryan. 743 00:58:47,030 --> 00:58:52,560 So if you have. Plenty of stories yet. 744 00:58:53,700 --> 00:58:59,990 We can bring this to a halt and schedule a second interview. 745 00:59:00,000 --> 00:59:06,150 No problem. On our end, I want to capture as much as you care to share. 746 00:59:06,420 --> 00:59:10,839 So it's up to you. We should. We try to hold everything 747 00:59:10,863 --> 00:59:14,790 in an hour or an hour and in 10 minutes or so. 748 00:59:15,090 --> 00:59:19,848 So if you've got more to share with us, we can read any 749 00:59:19,872 --> 00:59:24,630 time for this first session and schedule a return to you. 750 00:59:25,470 --> 00:59:30,098 But why not? This would be a logical place to wrap it up because then 751 00:59:30,122 --> 00:59:35,160 the next the the following stories will probably take less than an hour. 752 00:59:35,160 --> 00:59:38,190 But they're the kind of stories, I think, 753 00:59:38,190 --> 00:59:43,038 that create a picture of what life was like on lookouts 754 00:59:43,062 --> 00:59:48,450 and on fire crews in what is now becoming ancient history, 755 00:59:49,350 --> 00:59:53,190 I guess, on growing and becoming part of the dinosaur group. 756 00:59:53,190 --> 00:59:58,050 So that may be interesting to some group down the line to hear these old stories. 757 00:59:58,860 --> 01:00:02,096 Well, I certainly want to capture that. And I have to 758 01:00:02,120 --> 01:00:05,730 tell you that during the last hour and 10 minutes or so, 759 01:00:06,090 --> 01:00:11,873 I saw your your aura go from something in the 760 01:00:11,897 --> 01:00:17,680 50 year old range back down to 220 years old. 761 01:00:17,700 --> 01:00:21,360 I just saw that transformation in your face. Mm hmm. 762 01:00:21,720 --> 01:00:22,230 Thank you. 763 01:00:22,270 --> 01:00:26,708 So it definitely is fun to relive these things, and it's just great to have 764 01:00:26,732 --> 01:00:31,169 the sense that there's somebody that might be interested in these stories. 765 01:00:31,170 --> 01:00:36,300 And, you know, if anything, I see it as something for my family. 766 01:00:36,750 --> 01:00:40,443 And these these things will be something my family can 767 01:00:40,467 --> 01:00:44,160 check back in on and to to know what the life of dad. 768 01:00:44,610 --> 01:00:48,000 Eventually, grandpa. Eventually great grandpa. Who knows? 769 01:00:49,350 --> 01:00:54,200 So I'm very thankful that you're giving me this chance to talk about these things. 770 01:00:54,210 --> 01:00:57,460 So, yeah, I think we can reschedule. Okay. Okay. 771 01:00:57,800 --> 01:01:04,230 So do you want to answer the second part of the question here at the end of today? 772 01:01:04,590 --> 01:01:10,080 Sure. You know, I think the other part of being a lookout 773 01:01:10,104 --> 01:01:15,299 is having a bit of an introverted side to yourself. 774 01:01:15,300 --> 01:01:19,152 In other words, to be very easily entertained with 775 01:01:19,176 --> 01:01:23,580 your own thoughts and to be comfortable with yourself. 776 01:01:25,080 --> 01:01:30,210 I think that it is so important to have that ability to be self-reflective. 777 01:01:30,600 --> 01:01:34,649 I've always valued that and look out to give you that chance to do that in pretty 778 01:01:34,650 --> 01:01:39,170 much every lookout person I've met seems to have that quality about them. 779 01:01:39,180 --> 01:01:43,953 They have they have the willingness to and the comfort to just 780 01:01:43,977 --> 01:01:48,750 be alone, be with themselves, and to be in their own thoughts. 781 01:01:50,370 --> 01:01:53,850 And which I will say as a young adult, 782 01:01:54,090 --> 01:01:59,193 that gave me some opportunity to read some very well thought provoking 783 01:01:59,217 --> 01:02:04,320 books like Zen and The Art of Motorcycle Maintenance by Robert Pearson. 784 01:02:04,980 --> 01:02:07,743 I can remember that reading that on the lookout 785 01:02:07,767 --> 01:02:10,469 and so that that gave me the opportunity to 786 01:02:10,470 --> 01:02:13,173 really reflect on a lot of different things 787 01:02:13,197 --> 01:02:15,900 that I think lookouts as a whole tend to do. 788 01:02:16,840 --> 01:02:19,990 So yeah, that answers at least that part of the question. 789 01:02:20,830 --> 01:02:28,900 Cool. That was very insightful to me and and I seem to resemble both of those answers. 790 01:02:30,000 --> 01:02:37,590 I believe that. Beth, do you want to offer something in closing here for this session? 791 01:02:38,010 --> 01:02:41,636 The only thing that I mean, I'm in there, too, with you 792 01:02:41,660 --> 01:02:45,690 guys, you know, feeling the same way about being lookouts. 793 01:02:45,690 --> 01:02:49,293 But I guess one of the things that I'm picking 794 01:02:49,317 --> 01:02:52,919 up from your interview is just the closeness 795 01:02:52,920 --> 01:03:00,510 between you and your dad and how much he taught you and how much you appreciated. 796 01:03:01,550 --> 01:03:07,820 Being the son that had a father to, you know, offer up these wonderful things. 797 01:03:07,820 --> 01:03:13,040 And I want to learn how to bake a pie for him. 798 01:03:14,360 --> 01:03:18,380 Or are you sure? Or are you good? No, no, I I'm not the pie baker. 799 01:03:18,790 --> 01:03:21,919 Dad is unfortunately in our family. Dad. 800 01:03:21,920 --> 01:03:25,040 Dad has those skills, and he's the only one with those skills. 801 01:03:25,040 --> 01:03:29,629 So when he passes on, we're going to have to work hard to try to reproduce that. 802 01:03:29,630 --> 01:03:34,660 So you should take advantage of that service. Yes, I no, you're right, Beth. 803 01:03:34,670 --> 01:03:41,809 The the one on one time with my dad gave me a connection and a bond with him that as 804 01:03:41,810 --> 01:03:47,780 an adult now I truly understand and appreciate at the time you take it for granted. 805 01:03:48,260 --> 01:03:53,990 And and so I think now, like any just even preparing for this interview, 806 01:03:54,410 --> 01:04:01,160 Dad's amazing memory about all these experiences blew me away and he was so helpful 807 01:04:01,160 --> 01:04:08,330 for me to re connect and then paint in my mind what my experiences were like. 808 01:04:09,230 --> 01:04:12,608 Because after all, memory is just a construct 809 01:04:12,632 --> 01:04:16,549 and a construct that we have that is accurate and 810 01:04:16,550 --> 01:04:21,170 sometimes a little bit colored by the lens through which we look at life now. 811 01:04:21,800 --> 01:04:25,094 And so those accuracies may get stretched a 812 01:04:25,118 --> 01:04:29,120 little bit, but they still are important in that. 813 01:04:29,960 --> 01:04:32,944 Having Dad to share those ideas and those thoughts 814 01:04:32,968 --> 01:04:36,380 with me helped to freshen up what they mean to me now. 815 01:04:36,980 --> 01:04:40,493 So I, I do appreciate my relationship with Dad now and also 816 01:04:40,517 --> 01:04:44,030 the opportunity to have this project to reconnect with him. 817 01:04:46,660 --> 01:04:54,100 Well, and I have to say that I didn't really know you at all prior to this. 818 01:04:54,430 --> 01:04:57,940 I got to spend a lot of time with your dad doing 819 01:04:57,964 --> 01:05:01,400 the interviews and volunteering on lookouts. 820 01:05:01,720 --> 01:05:08,560 But it's very obvious after spending this time with you that you are his son. 821 01:05:09,970 --> 01:05:13,240 And that should be that's offered as a compliment. 822 01:05:13,240 --> 01:05:19,340 And you should take it that way. Thank you. So. And just to kind of wrap. 823 01:05:19,380 --> 01:05:23,043 I feel very privileged that you agreed to sit 824 01:05:23,067 --> 01:05:26,730 down with us and share that part of your life. 825 01:05:26,760 --> 01:05:31,068 I think we got we got a glimpse into your soul that 826 01:05:31,092 --> 01:05:35,400 hardly ever do we ever get with another individual. 827 01:05:35,430 --> 01:05:37,980 So as soon as we close here, 828 01:05:38,220 --> 01:05:42,961 we'll schedule the second interview and then you'll be stepped in 829 01:05:42,985 --> 01:05:48,320 with your dad in our our website when we get that straight university. 830 01:05:48,330 --> 01:05:51,240 Yeah. So really appreciate the time. 831 01:05:51,600 --> 01:05:54,954 And my mind, my mind is going like a thousand miles an hour 832 01:05:54,978 --> 01:05:58,680 now to try to see where we're going to go in the next session. 833 01:05:58,740 --> 01:06:02,300 Thank you. Thank you. Thanks, Brian.