1 00:00:02,710 --> 00:00:07,793 Greetings, Lookout friends. The Northwest Montana Lookout 2 00:00:07,817 --> 00:00:13,900 Association is back in service and ten eight. I'm Kjell Peterson. 3 00:00:14,560 --> 00:00:20,890 I'm here with Beth Hodder. She's our program manager for the oral history program. 4 00:00:21,370 --> 00:00:25,000 And we're here to do a second interview with Mark Hufstetler. 5 00:00:25,180 --> 00:00:28,453 Mark, want to throw anything out before we launch? Kjell 6 00:00:28,477 --> 00:00:31,750 I'm just happy to be back talking with you guys again. 7 00:00:31,780 --> 00:00:35,057 It's always a pleasure talking about lookouts, and it's a 8 00:00:35,081 --> 00:00:38,710 special pleasure talking about lookouts with the two of you. 9 00:00:41,150 --> 00:00:47,570 Yeah. Well, we kind of like it to best. Pardon me. 10 00:00:47,580 --> 00:00:54,710 Did you talk to me? Yes, go ahead. Oh. So, Mark, I think maybe toward the end of the. 11 00:00:57,390 --> 00:01:02,143 The the interview, we could have you talk about 12 00:01:02,167 --> 00:01:06,920 what to do when a person first visits a lookout. 13 00:01:06,930 --> 00:01:09,628 It may be their very first time they've ever come. 14 00:01:09,652 --> 00:01:12,239 Or it may just be to that particular lookout. 15 00:01:12,240 --> 00:01:19,100 But. We need to let people know that this is not an office, it is somebody's home, 16 00:01:19,550 --> 00:01:25,430 and that people should conduct themselves as if they are at someone's house. 17 00:01:25,910 --> 00:01:31,280 So maybe you can just talk about what you'd like to see when people come visit. 18 00:01:32,610 --> 00:01:37,500 That sounds great. Oh, I always love to have folks come visit me up there. 19 00:01:39,460 --> 00:01:42,781 Okay. Well, if I don't have a complete meltdown, I'll 20 00:01:42,805 --> 00:01:46,510 bring that up again at the end and we can talk about it. 21 00:01:47,170 --> 00:01:51,613 So, Mark, since you since our first session, which was more general in 22 00:01:51,637 --> 00:01:56,080 nature, we talked about the philosophy and the good feelings and stuff. 23 00:01:56,350 --> 00:02:01,273 I'm hoping maybe the second year of you can spend more time leading up to 24 00:02:01,297 --> 00:02:06,220 your look at addiction and wondering if you might focus more specialists, 25 00:02:06,520 --> 00:02:09,850 more specifically on lookout duties. 26 00:02:10,480 --> 00:02:16,638 And if memory serves me correctly, you've staffed Periphery Peak in the 27 00:02:16,662 --> 00:02:22,820 Lewis and Clark Cooney cyclone and currently Baptiste on the Flathead. 28 00:02:23,890 --> 00:02:29,814 So how about you cover each of those with high points, low points, taxing 29 00:02:29,838 --> 00:02:35,680 moments, joyful times, specific fire, wildlife or weather highlights? 30 00:02:36,040 --> 00:02:39,670 And we'll see what we can draw out of your history. 31 00:02:39,760 --> 00:02:42,820 Are you up for that? Sounds good. 32 00:02:42,830 --> 00:02:46,113 Yeah, well, we'll give it a shot. That's a lot of 33 00:02:46,137 --> 00:02:49,420 that's a lot for an hour, but we'll get going here. 34 00:02:49,750 --> 00:02:52,750 Well, saddle up and ride off into the sunset. 35 00:02:55,220 --> 00:02:59,278 I think I talked a little bit last time about how I got 36 00:02:59,302 --> 00:03:04,340 recruited into the lookout business, and that was to be a member. 37 00:03:05,950 --> 00:03:09,364 Of the volunteer lookout program that the Flathead 38 00:03:09,388 --> 00:03:13,570 National Forest has been operating since since about 2012. 39 00:03:14,530 --> 00:03:18,639 And I'll talk about that a little bit at the beginning, 40 00:03:18,640 --> 00:03:25,360 because it's a pretty unique program and one that I think benefits the forest pretty 41 00:03:25,360 --> 00:03:27,718 substantially and also offers some wonderful 42 00:03:27,742 --> 00:03:30,100 opportunities for members of the community. 43 00:03:32,390 --> 00:03:35,218 I was introduced to that program by Leif 44 00:03:35,242 --> 00:03:38,870 Haugen, who has operated it since its inception. 45 00:03:39,470 --> 00:03:41,802 He's the staffer for Tomah Lookout up in the 46 00:03:41,826 --> 00:03:44,540 North Fork Country close to the Canadian border. 47 00:03:45,020 --> 00:03:51,620 And he's an old friend of mine, and I entered the program about three years after it. 48 00:03:52,010 --> 00:03:56,450 It got started. That was in 2015. 49 00:03:57,230 --> 00:04:06,420 The first three years of the program. Staffed firefighter lookout and Baptist lookout. 50 00:04:06,430 --> 00:04:11,110 And then in 2015 they added Kuni Lookout down the Swan Lake country. 51 00:04:12,730 --> 00:04:16,108 The program is a little different for many 52 00:04:16,132 --> 00:04:19,510 of the country's volunteer lookout programs. 53 00:04:20,230 --> 00:04:25,840 Those are typically located in in areas that are less remote. 54 00:04:26,440 --> 00:04:29,668 And often the volunteers will go up for the day, put in 55 00:04:29,692 --> 00:04:32,920 their 8 hours, and then get home at the end of the day. 56 00:04:34,030 --> 00:04:37,570 In our program on the Flathead. 57 00:04:38,320 --> 00:04:44,350 Individuals sign up for what's essentially a full workout, full lookout hitch. 58 00:04:45,280 --> 00:04:50,233 They'll be up there for ten days to two weeks, actually living in the 59 00:04:50,257 --> 00:04:55,210 lookout and performing exactly the same duties of the paid lookouts. 60 00:04:57,010 --> 00:05:01,170 That makes it a pretty unique experience for the individuals 61 00:05:01,194 --> 00:05:04,930 involved, and it also makes it a pretty cool thing. 62 00:05:08,440 --> 00:05:13,209 Pretty cool thing for the forest because it gives 63 00:05:13,233 --> 00:05:18,700 them a fairly small number of folks who become pretty 64 00:05:18,700 --> 00:05:21,868 knowledgeable about the country and are able to perform 65 00:05:21,892 --> 00:05:25,060 the duties just about as well as the paid folks are. 66 00:05:27,430 --> 00:05:31,766 When I started the program, I was offered offered a two week 67 00:05:31,790 --> 00:05:36,790 hitch, two step staff Baptist lookout down the South Fork Country. 68 00:05:37,030 --> 00:05:43,510 And then as the season grew closer, I added a one week hitch down at Cooney Lookout. 69 00:05:45,400 --> 00:05:50,498 This was all pretty new to me at that point. I. Spent some 70 00:05:50,522 --> 00:05:55,620 overnights in three or four Forest Service rental lookouts, 71 00:05:55,620 --> 00:06:00,330 but had never worked for the Forest Service before or actually operated a lookout. 72 00:06:01,080 --> 00:06:05,010 And I was a little apprehensive about what I had gotten myself in for. 73 00:06:06,000 --> 00:06:11,850 But the Forest Service did a great job of introducing me to it. 74 00:06:14,220 --> 00:06:19,145 We start we operate a training program that lasts for, 75 00:06:19,169 --> 00:06:24,840 pardon me, two full days for our new volunteers every June. 76 00:06:26,100 --> 00:06:30,240 So I came up to Hungry Horse, spent a week doing. 77 00:06:32,530 --> 00:06:39,040 Doing various look out things up there began with a day in the classroom where 78 00:06:39,040 --> 00:06:45,640 we were introduced to how a lookout observes and interprets the weather. 79 00:06:46,480 --> 00:06:48,358 A gentleman from the National Weather Service 80 00:06:48,382 --> 00:06:50,260 in Missoula comes up and does that for us. 81 00:06:51,490 --> 00:06:55,890 We spent some time learning how to use the fire finder, which 82 00:06:55,914 --> 00:07:00,240 is a pretty simple tool, but a pretty arcane one as well. 83 00:07:00,250 --> 00:07:07,720 And it's something that takes folks a little while to fully, fully understand. 84 00:07:08,620 --> 00:07:12,490 And then we learned how to use the radios. The. 85 00:07:13,970 --> 00:07:18,668 It was a lot of material. Some of the new volunteers get pretty 86 00:07:18,692 --> 00:07:23,390 overwhelmed by it all because folks think that there's not really 87 00:07:23,930 --> 00:07:27,443 all that much to look out job that you just go up 88 00:07:27,467 --> 00:07:30,979 on top of the mountain and sit there and stare out. 89 00:07:30,980 --> 00:07:38,903 And they don't realize all the all the pieces that go into it and all of 90 00:07:38,927 --> 00:07:46,850 the skills that you need to have to do the job well and skills that are. 91 00:07:48,470 --> 00:07:52,508 I've often been lost in our 21st century world, so 92 00:07:52,532 --> 00:07:56,570 it was a pretty full day of classroom instruction. 93 00:07:57,230 --> 00:08:02,990 Then the next day, all the new volunteers, along with all the paid lookouts, 94 00:08:03,170 --> 00:08:10,898 go up to firefighter lookout and spend a day actually doing field 95 00:08:10,922 --> 00:08:18,650 work that imitates how lookouts a lookouts work day progresses. 96 00:08:20,870 --> 00:08:26,843 And it was tremendous fun. And I remember leaving it feeling just 97 00:08:26,867 --> 00:08:32,839 a little bit overwhelmed at knowing how much there is to do and how 98 00:08:32,840 --> 00:08:36,203 much there is to understand and and that there's some 99 00:08:36,227 --> 00:08:39,590 responsibility involved with that at the same time. 100 00:08:43,150 --> 00:08:47,398 So I remember going to my first pitch at CUNA Lookout and being 101 00:08:47,422 --> 00:08:51,670 more and a little nervous about what I had gotten myself into. 102 00:08:53,230 --> 00:08:56,908 But it turned out to be. It turned out to be 103 00:08:56,932 --> 00:09:00,610 great. Cooney is easy to look out to reach. 104 00:09:00,730 --> 00:09:05,260 And it's it's it's unique in that it's part of a community. 105 00:09:05,470 --> 00:09:11,170 The folks who live in Condon are well acquainted with the lookout and they come 106 00:09:11,170 --> 00:09:16,230 up to say hello to you and introduce you to to the landscape around there. 107 00:09:16,240 --> 00:09:20,323 And it isn't long until you feel like you're 108 00:09:20,347 --> 00:09:24,430 a part of the place that the lookout serves. 109 00:09:24,670 --> 00:09:29,079 And that's one of the coolest things about being a lookout in general. 110 00:09:29,080 --> 00:09:33,260 And I remember that as being particularly strong there for a number of years. 111 00:09:33,280 --> 00:09:38,530 Cooney was operated by the state body, by the Montana DNR, see, 112 00:09:39,430 --> 00:09:43,753 and those folks turned it over to the Forest Service a few 113 00:09:43,777 --> 00:09:48,100 years earlier and all the DNR folks would come up to the, 114 00:09:48,100 --> 00:09:54,730 look out to and help get me acquainted and introduce me to the valley. 115 00:09:55,460 --> 00:09:59,178 It it reinforced the notion that it wasn't just a 116 00:09:59,202 --> 00:10:02,920 few lookout geeks like us who loved these places, 117 00:10:02,920 --> 00:10:11,620 but that people who lived nearby really liked having the lookouts there, too, 118 00:10:11,620 --> 00:10:18,160 and felt that it was something that helped hold the community together, in a way. 119 00:10:19,440 --> 00:10:22,710 And I, I thought that was I thought that was pretty neat. 120 00:10:24,990 --> 00:10:31,938 I never actually found fire at CUNY. We call in a couple of fires there 121 00:10:31,962 --> 00:10:38,910 every summer, but my main memory of that place is of being part of a. 122 00:10:40,080 --> 00:10:43,350 A small Montana town up in. 123 00:10:43,660 --> 00:10:47,726 In middle of nowhere. And. Observing how that valley evolved 124 00:10:47,750 --> 00:10:52,300 over the course of the season and then over the course of years. 125 00:10:56,100 --> 00:11:00,978 We also use Cluny Lookout as a location for some of the annual 126 00:11:01,002 --> 00:11:06,360 annual look out refresher trainings every summer of the Flathead. 127 00:11:08,370 --> 00:11:12,153 Takes all the returning volunteer lookouts and gets them together for 128 00:11:12,177 --> 00:11:15,960 half a day or a day to go over the principles of being a lookout again. 129 00:11:16,410 --> 00:11:21,920 And Kunai is where we do that. And I always look forward to those trainings. 130 00:11:24,220 --> 00:11:27,408 Partly because it's it's good to get back into 131 00:11:27,432 --> 00:11:30,549 the habit of being at one of these places, 132 00:11:30,550 --> 00:11:36,850 but also because we have a pretty remarkable look at community in the in the Flathead. 133 00:11:38,110 --> 00:11:44,680 We have a group of volunteers who are an amazing group of folks, 134 00:11:46,360 --> 00:11:50,678 people who have a strong affection for for the job and 135 00:11:50,702 --> 00:11:55,020 a strong attack, affection for the location as well. 136 00:11:55,030 --> 00:11:58,978 And I've gotten to know a lot of them over the years, and 137 00:11:59,002 --> 00:12:02,950 I count many of them as as being very good friends of mine. 138 00:12:03,820 --> 00:12:05,140 I think I mentioned last year, 139 00:12:05,380 --> 00:12:10,901 or I think I mentioned at our last interview that I was a little apprehensive 140 00:12:10,925 --> 00:12:16,300 about introducing myself to the Lookout community because I thought that 141 00:12:16,480 --> 00:12:20,137 the fire lookouts were always going to be cranky old farts who didn't 142 00:12:20,161 --> 00:12:24,250 want to talk to anyone else and were were basically hiding from the world. 143 00:12:24,610 --> 00:12:28,900 And that was definitely not the case. 144 00:12:30,070 --> 00:12:33,013 Some of the best folks I've I've ever met have been part 145 00:12:33,037 --> 00:12:35,980 of the lookout communities in the Flathead and elsewhere. 146 00:12:38,080 --> 00:12:41,849 Every June we have a look at potluck right before the beginning 147 00:12:41,873 --> 00:12:45,520 of season and we have another one in September at the end. 148 00:12:46,270 --> 00:12:50,650 And I remember going to the first of those potlucks in 2015. 149 00:12:50,890 --> 00:12:54,233 It was hosted by Karen Connolly, and I was 150 00:12:54,257 --> 00:12:58,090 really worried about what I was getting into. 151 00:12:58,300 --> 00:13:03,366 I, I kind of thought I was going to be. In a corner myself with a 152 00:13:03,390 --> 00:13:09,170 bunch of whole bunch of other people who are in a corner by themselves. 153 00:13:09,620 --> 00:13:13,400 And nobody was going to have any fun. And it was exactly the opposite. 154 00:13:14,150 --> 00:13:19,505 I had a blast and everyone else was having a blast and talking lookouts 155 00:13:19,529 --> 00:13:24,500 and sharing stories and getting excited about the summer ahead. 156 00:13:25,100 --> 00:13:29,940 And it was a great thing. That's it. 157 00:13:30,600 --> 00:13:33,810 Can you give me half a second here? Sure. 158 00:13:42,180 --> 00:13:46,693 It was pretty different being. At a place like Cooney 159 00:13:46,717 --> 00:13:51,229 where you able to drive to the look out and you brought 160 00:13:51,230 --> 00:13:55,880 your own supplies in and basically had a town a few minutes away where you could. 161 00:13:59,340 --> 00:14:01,890 Get anything else that you need it or interact with people. 162 00:14:02,730 --> 00:14:07,068 And then you went to Baptist, which is about six miles from the closest 163 00:14:07,092 --> 00:14:11,430 road, and that trailhead is about an hour from the closest pavement. 164 00:14:12,240 --> 00:14:18,150 And it's a place that gets maybe two dozen visitors a summer, if that. 165 00:14:20,310 --> 00:14:25,620 So you're completely on your own there. And that was an interesting transition for me. 166 00:14:29,010 --> 00:14:32,220 You have to bring up, of course, everything that you need for your hitch. 167 00:14:32,850 --> 00:14:35,658 As a volunteer, I wasn't sure what that would entail, 168 00:14:35,682 --> 00:14:38,490 and I spent hours planning menus and making lists and. 169 00:14:39,600 --> 00:14:45,013 And then when I went up to the training camp, I was 170 00:14:45,037 --> 00:14:51,209 asked to bring a couple of boxes of all of my supplies, 171 00:14:51,210 --> 00:14:55,200 groceries, gear, clothing that would be delivered to the Forest Service. 172 00:14:55,620 --> 00:15:00,450 And in turn, they would get it to the lookout in advance of my arrival. 173 00:15:02,190 --> 00:15:08,373 Typically, they do that at using pack mules. And so in late June, early 174 00:15:08,397 --> 00:15:14,580 July, Forest Service took a pack string of my stuff up to the mountain. 175 00:15:14,790 --> 00:15:19,769 And I think I mentioned that that first year, one of the of the mules broke away. 176 00:15:19,770 --> 00:15:22,488 And most of my stuff spent a night scattered 177 00:15:22,512 --> 00:15:25,230 across the forest floor on the Baptist trail. 178 00:15:26,430 --> 00:15:30,855 And when I got up there, a lot of my a lot of 179 00:15:30,879 --> 00:15:35,909 my dried fruit had been munched on a little bit. 180 00:15:35,910 --> 00:15:39,990 But that was that was part of the excitement for me. 181 00:15:41,550 --> 00:15:45,780 It turned out that I was able to plan reasonably well for most of that. 182 00:15:46,320 --> 00:15:49,983 I didn't run out of food. My dog didn't run 183 00:15:50,007 --> 00:15:53,670 out of food. And I had a pretty amazing time. 184 00:15:55,500 --> 00:16:01,090 That year was the year. There was a pretty massive, 185 00:16:01,720 --> 00:16:06,919 pretty massive fire in the Spotted Bear country and it meant 186 00:16:06,943 --> 00:16:12,760 apt East was pretty heavily impacted impacted by wildfire smoke. 187 00:16:13,300 --> 00:16:19,810 And so my visibility wasn't it wasn't much and I didn't have many visitors. 188 00:16:20,440 --> 00:16:24,340 The only folks who came up were a couple of friends of mine who came to see the place. 189 00:16:26,620 --> 00:16:32,368 But I was able to see wildlife and I was able to get comfortable with the 190 00:16:32,392 --> 00:16:38,140 job and I was able to interact with the volunteers down a firefighter. 191 00:16:38,290 --> 00:16:41,590 And they kind of helped me through that process, too. 192 00:16:42,460 --> 00:16:47,038 And pretty sure both of both the two of you spent some time 193 00:16:47,062 --> 00:16:51,640 on the on the lookout circuit with me that first for summer. 194 00:16:52,710 --> 00:16:55,710 Yep. Yep, yep. 195 00:16:58,340 --> 00:17:02,918 And I basically repeated that process for the next couple of years 196 00:17:02,942 --> 00:17:07,520 each year, spending a little more time at the volunteer lookouts. 197 00:17:08,190 --> 00:17:14,720 And in the year 2017, they added cyclone lookout to the volunteer list. 198 00:17:14,930 --> 00:17:19,759 And so that year I spent about ten days at Kuni. 199 00:17:19,760 --> 00:17:30,130 Another ten days. Cyclone and then 24 days at Baptist in and in one long hitch. 200 00:17:30,940 --> 00:17:34,360 And so certainly I knew I was hooked at that point. 201 00:17:37,730 --> 00:17:41,655 The thing I love most about being at Baptist in 202 00:17:41,679 --> 00:17:46,460 particular is that the weather up there is incredible. 203 00:17:47,390 --> 00:17:51,251 You have a view of the valley that is in line with 204 00:17:51,275 --> 00:17:55,610 the clouds, not below it, sometimes above the clouds. 205 00:17:56,180 --> 00:17:59,603 And you can watch the interplay between the sun and 206 00:17:59,627 --> 00:18:03,050 the clouds and the water of hungry horse reservoir. 207 00:18:03,680 --> 00:18:09,950 And there's a light there that is just the most remarkable thing. 208 00:18:10,700 --> 00:18:14,631 And what makes it even more remarkable is that you're 209 00:18:14,655 --> 00:18:19,040 the only one who's able to see it from that perspective. 210 00:18:20,370 --> 00:18:25,530 And it makes you really feel like you're the luckiest person that there is. 211 00:18:28,920 --> 00:18:34,668 You see wildlife, too. And the area and on the Baptist from 212 00:18:34,692 --> 00:18:40,440 the Baptist Trail has a lot of huckleberries in late summer. 213 00:18:40,530 --> 00:18:44,906 And so every August and September, you see evidence 214 00:18:44,930 --> 00:18:49,920 that you're sharing the mountaintop with grizzly bears. 215 00:18:51,260 --> 00:18:56,438 I remember one one day, I think it was 2016 or 2017 216 00:18:56,462 --> 00:19:01,640 that I started hiking down from Baptist to get water. 217 00:19:02,030 --> 00:19:06,660 And and the dog I had at the time was a very savvy outdoor dog, 218 00:19:06,684 --> 00:19:11,240 and he was always excited about the trip down to the creek. 219 00:19:11,990 --> 00:19:14,872 And we got about a half mile down the trail 220 00:19:14,896 --> 00:19:18,260 and the dog stopped and just gave me this look. 221 00:19:19,220 --> 00:19:23,213 And I'd never seen that look on his face before. 222 00:19:23,237 --> 00:19:27,230 And he didn't really feel like going any further. 223 00:19:27,410 --> 00:19:30,649 And so I looked down at him and said, It's your choice. 224 00:19:30,650 --> 00:19:33,039 We can go get water or we can go back up the mountain. 225 00:19:33,063 --> 00:19:35,180 And he turned around and ran up the mountain. 226 00:19:36,830 --> 00:19:41,663 And the next and the next morning I heard a noise in the 227 00:19:41,687 --> 00:19:46,520 avalanche chute very close to where the water source is. 228 00:19:47,240 --> 00:19:54,800 And I got my field glasses out and I saw a mother bear and and three cubs. 229 00:19:57,090 --> 00:20:01,003 It eating huckleberries right there. And I took a picture 230 00:20:01,027 --> 00:20:04,940 of it with my camera, and I sent it to Chell right away. 231 00:20:05,600 --> 00:20:08,719 And I got an email right back from him. 232 00:20:08,720 --> 00:20:15,680 And it said, Dude, you've got grizzlies. And it was super exciting. 233 00:20:15,700 --> 00:20:19,063 I was I spent the next couple of days watching 234 00:20:19,087 --> 00:20:22,900 those bears in the avalanche shoot just below me, 235 00:20:23,500 --> 00:20:27,850 you know, about a quarter mile as the crow flies, happily eating away at the berries. 236 00:20:27,970 --> 00:20:34,120 And again, I was the only person who had that experience. 237 00:20:34,510 --> 00:20:37,910 And it was. It was. It was wonderful. 238 00:20:38,720 --> 00:20:42,578 The dog probably saved your life. I'm not sure if the 239 00:20:42,602 --> 00:20:46,460 dog was more interested in saving his life or mine. 240 00:20:47,210 --> 00:20:53,763 It worked out well, either way. But those were some 241 00:20:53,787 --> 00:21:00,340 of my a couple of my favorite moments at Baptist. 242 00:21:02,100 --> 00:21:06,937 I enjoyed cycling, too. Mostly because it it has a 243 00:21:06,961 --> 00:21:12,490 spectacular view of the park of Glacier National Park. 244 00:21:14,050 --> 00:21:17,003 It's a view that equals or exceeds any view that a 245 00:21:17,027 --> 00:21:19,980 tourist is going to get by being in the park itself. 246 00:21:21,100 --> 00:21:25,900 And when you get up early in the morning and you watch the sun come up. 247 00:21:28,600 --> 00:21:31,750 Over the Livingston range and down into Bowman Lake. 248 00:21:32,410 --> 00:21:36,153 It is truly a magical thing. You're a little bit a 249 00:21:36,177 --> 00:21:39,920 part of that community as well when you're up there. 250 00:21:41,200 --> 00:21:45,978 You know, the little town of Corbridge is in view right below 251 00:21:46,002 --> 00:21:50,780 you and the folks down there come up to look out fairly often. 252 00:21:50,860 --> 00:21:54,099 It's it's the only place they can get cell reception in the valley. 253 00:21:54,100 --> 00:21:59,488 And it's it's a place they come up at night and watch the 254 00:21:59,512 --> 00:22:04,900 stars and come up in the morning to watch the sunrise. 255 00:22:05,800 --> 00:22:11,204 And you feel like it's your outpost, but it's an outpost that you're 256 00:22:11,228 --> 00:22:17,440 sharing with a handful of other people who understand it and appreciate it. 257 00:22:18,190 --> 00:22:22,267 And that's also pretty cool. A lot of the memories I 258 00:22:22,291 --> 00:22:26,930 have of these places are ones that are hard to describe. 259 00:22:31,300 --> 00:22:37,978 In words. I remember a night at Cyclone where we had a completely 260 00:22:38,002 --> 00:22:44,680 full moon and just about the whole sky was covered with clouds, 261 00:22:44,680 --> 00:22:47,998 except for an opening where the moon was and the 262 00:22:48,022 --> 00:22:51,340 moon was shining right down on to Cyclone Lake. 263 00:22:52,330 --> 00:22:57,860 And you. Could look out the windows of the look out and look down from the catwalk. 264 00:22:57,860 --> 00:23:02,870 And everything was pitch black except for a perfect reflection of that leg. 265 00:23:03,530 --> 00:23:09,560 And it was glowing in the night. And it was just an incredible thing to see. 266 00:23:12,080 --> 00:23:15,424 It's moments like that that really give you a 267 00:23:15,448 --> 00:23:19,250 special connection with the place where you are. 268 00:23:20,030 --> 00:23:22,748 You get an intimacy with a particular spot on earth that 269 00:23:22,772 --> 00:23:25,490 nobody else is really able to do in quite the same way. 270 00:23:26,030 --> 00:23:32,057 And I think that's one of the best things about 271 00:23:32,081 --> 00:23:39,290 being a cop. After my volunteer years were were done, 272 00:23:40,610 --> 00:23:44,513 I accepted a lookout job with the Lewis and Clark National 273 00:23:44,537 --> 00:23:48,440 Forest out of the White Sulfur Springs Ranger District. 274 00:23:48,860 --> 00:23:53,690 This was my first paid lookout position, and I left Portree peak lookout. 275 00:23:56,120 --> 00:23:59,960 Just which is up in the King's Hill area. 276 00:24:00,950 --> 00:24:06,149 It was a very different experience for me. I was the only operating lookout 277 00:24:06,173 --> 00:24:11,090 for about 100 miles in any direction, so I was completely on my own. 278 00:24:12,110 --> 00:24:17,300 I was at the end of a road that. 279 00:24:18,560 --> 00:24:21,151 People could use it. And there was a picnic 280 00:24:21,175 --> 00:24:24,200 area right there and a ski hill right below me. 281 00:24:25,400 --> 00:24:28,530 And so I had a good string of visitors almost every day. 282 00:24:29,210 --> 00:24:36,130 Lots of folks with ATVs and. And mountain bikes and jeeps. 283 00:24:36,280 --> 00:24:45,640 And it didn't have the solitude that I really grew to love at Baptist in particular. 284 00:24:47,500 --> 00:24:51,793 And it was a wonderful for us to work at the office I 285 00:24:51,817 --> 00:24:56,110 was at had some of the best folks I've ever met there. 286 00:24:56,110 --> 00:24:59,666 And they they were super supportive of the lookout. 287 00:24:59,690 --> 00:25:02,890 But I really missed I missed the isolation. 288 00:25:03,070 --> 00:25:11,510 I missed the sense of having a mountain that was just mining almost. 289 00:25:12,610 --> 00:25:16,750 And at the same time, I also missed the lookout community of the Flathead. 290 00:25:18,040 --> 00:25:23,380 So I was very happy to get back up to the flat I had the following 291 00:25:23,404 --> 00:25:29,320 year when I was able to accept a paid position back at Baptiste again. 292 00:25:30,730 --> 00:25:34,394 And I've been there the last coming up on my 293 00:25:34,418 --> 00:25:38,680 fifth, fifth year doing that as a paid employee. 294 00:25:40,050 --> 00:25:46,653 So a lot of lookouts will spend one or two years at a place, go on 295 00:25:46,677 --> 00:25:53,280 to another, spend one or two years there, go on again, and so forth. 296 00:25:53,280 --> 00:25:58,560 And others of us will find a place that that becomes ours, that becomes home. 297 00:25:59,100 --> 00:26:04,728 And Baptist is definitely home for me. It was 298 00:26:04,752 --> 00:26:10,380 like you have a brand new bathroom at Baptist. 299 00:26:12,340 --> 00:26:15,710 What's that show? You'd have a brand new outhouse at Baptist. 300 00:26:16,730 --> 00:26:21,370 Incredible view if you leave the door open. That was a look. 301 00:26:21,370 --> 00:26:26,320 That was an outhouse that Leif built in, I think, 2012. And it is a great outhouse, 302 00:26:26,350 --> 00:26:33,909 but I've had a couple of conversations with folks who can't understand how I 303 00:26:33,910 --> 00:26:39,710 could live someplace without indoor plumbing and had I show them a Southern. 304 00:26:42,380 --> 00:26:48,560 Now the view is from a outhouse door. And then they almost immediately understand. 305 00:26:51,700 --> 00:26:55,060 That's one thing about a lookout outhouse that's always got an amazing view. 306 00:27:01,400 --> 00:27:05,183 But it was interesting coming back to the Flathead, but being 307 00:27:05,207 --> 00:27:09,560 instead of being one of the volunteers, being one of the employees, 308 00:27:11,390 --> 00:27:17,043 our district has two paid lookout employees, myself 309 00:27:17,067 --> 00:27:22,720 and Leif Haugen, and we each have our own lookouts. 310 00:27:22,730 --> 00:27:28,232 And then we were also responsible for the upkeep of the three volunteer 311 00:27:28,256 --> 00:27:34,310 lookouts on the forest, as well as interacting with the lookout volunteers. 312 00:27:36,170 --> 00:27:41,060 So there's a little diversity to the job. I typically start at the Flathead. 313 00:27:41,090 --> 00:27:44,410 Towards the end of May, which is at least a 314 00:27:44,434 --> 00:27:48,230 month before our actual lookout season starts. 315 00:27:49,790 --> 00:27:53,150 So we have a few weeks to get everything ready. 316 00:27:54,770 --> 00:27:58,298 It's important to visit all of the lookouts the first couple 317 00:27:58,322 --> 00:28:01,850 of weeks that were there to see how they handled the winter. 318 00:28:03,230 --> 00:28:04,700 Sometimes there will be. 319 00:28:06,660 --> 00:28:10,263 You'll be maintenance needs that, you know, showed up over the winter, 320 00:28:10,287 --> 00:28:13,890 things that need to be repaired before the lookouts go back in service. 321 00:28:15,060 --> 00:28:18,228 A couple of cases we've gotten to lookouts and 322 00:28:18,252 --> 00:28:21,420 found that they'd been broken into, for example. 323 00:28:24,440 --> 00:28:28,538 Then we have a week when we do refresher training for ourselves 324 00:28:28,562 --> 00:28:32,660 and for the look up volunteers of Annual Forest Service training. 325 00:28:33,080 --> 00:28:36,742 Things like first aid, you know, how to how to 326 00:28:36,766 --> 00:28:41,000 respond to fire activities and that sort of stuff. 327 00:28:42,260 --> 00:28:46,507 Quite a few lookouts have red cards, which are the credentials 328 00:28:46,531 --> 00:28:50,360 that allow them to actually assist with firefighting. 329 00:28:50,810 --> 00:28:53,621 And so those of us who have red cards have 330 00:28:53,645 --> 00:28:56,870 to do refresher training every year for that. 331 00:28:59,750 --> 00:29:02,990 We update instructional manuals for our volunteers. 332 00:29:03,680 --> 00:29:07,340 It's a fairly busy and diverse time, 333 00:29:07,910 --> 00:29:12,059 but we spend most of that time getting anxious for the days 334 00:29:12,083 --> 00:29:16,160 when we're able to actually move into our towers again. 335 00:29:17,270 --> 00:29:23,960 Generally, that happens for me about the end of June. It's dependent on. 336 00:29:26,050 --> 00:29:26,770 On the weather. 337 00:29:26,770 --> 00:29:32,301 More than anything else, the hike up to Baptiste is one that includes a 338 00:29:32,325 --> 00:29:38,410 lot of snow until at least mid-June, most years, sometimes later than that. 339 00:29:38,710 --> 00:29:44,274 And generally, my first hike up to Baptist in the spring 340 00:29:44,298 --> 00:29:49,660 involves a mile or two of of hiking over, you know, 341 00:29:49,660 --> 00:29:55,738 six or seven feet of snow sometimes, and then climbing up the last set 342 00:29:55,762 --> 00:30:01,840 of trail switchbacks that are completely obscured by steep snowfall. 343 00:30:03,970 --> 00:30:09,520 That also means that we can't get the lookout open until enough of the snow. 344 00:30:11,520 --> 00:30:17,510 Has melted for the pack mules to come up. I. 345 00:30:20,950 --> 00:30:25,210 Do a process a little bit similar to what the volunteers do with my food. 346 00:30:26,950 --> 00:30:34,930 I prepare a giant shopping list every may and buy several hundred dollars 347 00:30:34,954 --> 00:30:43,600 worth of groceries, pack them into a dozen or so good sized cardboard boxes. 348 00:30:44,230 --> 00:30:48,088 Basically apple box size boxes. And those get 349 00:30:48,112 --> 00:30:51,970 delivered to the Ranger district in late June. 350 00:30:53,000 --> 00:30:57,110 And our district packer will bring them up in early July. 351 00:30:58,580 --> 00:31:00,170 She'll also bring up enough. 352 00:31:01,380 --> 00:31:06,913 Enough propane to last me for the summer, bring up any repair supplies 353 00:31:06,937 --> 00:31:12,390 that were identified during our early visits to the lookout paint. 354 00:31:12,780 --> 00:31:17,288 Stuff like that. And generally they try to get there 355 00:31:17,312 --> 00:31:21,820 about the same time that Baptiste goes into service. 356 00:31:25,660 --> 00:31:28,828 It's the only lookout in our district that is 357 00:31:28,852 --> 00:31:32,020 still regularly serviced by pack pack animals. 358 00:31:32,860 --> 00:31:36,760 And I would guess one of just a couple dozen in the country that still. 359 00:31:37,720 --> 00:31:43,450 Operate that way. And seen the pack mules come up. 360 00:31:43,450 --> 00:31:48,300 The trail is just the coolest thing because it's going to be like 361 00:31:48,324 --> 00:31:54,010 Christmas when you start opening all those boxes up and at the same time, 362 00:31:54,370 --> 00:31:59,440 you know that the other 300 million people in America are getting their groceries. 363 00:32:01,740 --> 00:32:05,700 Through a UPS truck or Amazon Prime or their own cars. 364 00:32:06,300 --> 00:32:10,403 And you're experiencing something that. But the rest of 365 00:32:10,427 --> 00:32:14,530 the world has moved on from a couple of generations ago. 366 00:32:18,820 --> 00:32:22,870 The other supplies I will bring up to the lookout on my own. 367 00:32:24,430 --> 00:32:28,430 I need to have perishables. If. 368 00:32:29,380 --> 00:32:31,528 I want to have perishables. I need to bring them 369 00:32:31,552 --> 00:32:33,700 up myself. Every time I go down for days off. 370 00:32:34,390 --> 00:32:40,123 And so I have a pack every two weeks loaded with things like eggs and 371 00:32:40,147 --> 00:32:45,880 milk and cheese and a few fresh vegetables and that sort of stuff. 372 00:32:49,150 --> 00:32:53,763 But I eat pretty well up there. Mark, do you get 373 00:32:53,787 --> 00:32:58,400 resupplied at all by the pack, by the packer? 374 00:33:00,590 --> 00:33:02,720 It's varied a little bit, depending on the year. 375 00:33:03,530 --> 00:33:08,937 We always try to get one good sized pack trip at the beginning 376 00:33:08,961 --> 00:33:14,900 of the year and hopefully a second pack string during mid-season. 377 00:33:15,020 --> 00:33:21,488 So typically I would get two pack trips a year. It depends on the 378 00:33:21,512 --> 00:33:27,980 availability of of animals and and personnel to take care of that. 379 00:33:29,120 --> 00:33:32,018 There was one year that we handled the resupply by 380 00:33:32,042 --> 00:33:34,940 helicopter because the animals weren't available. 381 00:33:36,590 --> 00:33:42,709 A lot of other lookouts, especially the ones in Idaho and Arizona, New Mexico, 382 00:33:42,710 --> 00:33:47,600 end up using helicopters fairly consistently for their supply deliveries. 383 00:33:49,010 --> 00:33:52,070 Here in Montana, it's just about always pack animals. 384 00:33:53,120 --> 00:34:00,110 Other districts receive PAC trips quite a bit more often than I do. 385 00:34:02,360 --> 00:34:06,235 For example, the Glacier National Park lookouts 386 00:34:06,259 --> 00:34:10,980 receive a park stream every two weeks and the lookouts 387 00:34:11,030 --> 00:34:16,790 down in the Bob Marshall on will generally get a park string every three weeks or so. 388 00:34:18,230 --> 00:34:21,908 For those folks, the pack strings include not only their 389 00:34:21,932 --> 00:34:25,610 groceries, but also all the drinking water that they need. 390 00:34:27,410 --> 00:34:34,290 I get to hold the water myself and a few lookouts. 391 00:34:34,310 --> 00:34:43,220 Leafs lookout at Tomah. He he he has to carry in a good chunk of his own supplies. 392 00:34:43,370 --> 00:34:47,948 We don't send pack animals up there. Sometimes if there's a special need, 393 00:34:47,972 --> 00:34:52,550 one of the fire crews will help us out and do what's called a Sherpa trip, 394 00:34:53,450 --> 00:34:57,860 where they will pack up pack up supplies for us. 395 00:34:59,090 --> 00:35:05,480 We use the Sherpas to pack supplies up to the cyclone lookout volunteers as well. 396 00:35:07,530 --> 00:35:11,673 The Cyclone Lookout folks still operate in the same way that 397 00:35:11,697 --> 00:35:15,840 the Baptist volunteers did when that was a volunteer lookout. 398 00:35:16,350 --> 00:35:20,688 Every volunteer lookout is asked to bring a box or two 399 00:35:20,712 --> 00:35:25,050 of of supplies and groceries to the training session, 400 00:35:25,590 --> 00:35:31,080 and then our district will get them up there prior to their hitch beginning. 401 00:35:38,020 --> 00:35:48,390 I think. I think the self-reliance of it is. 402 00:35:51,210 --> 00:35:57,210 Something that I was was the most concerned about before starting there. 403 00:35:58,410 --> 00:36:01,368 Because we live in a world where that kind 404 00:36:01,392 --> 00:36:04,350 of self-reliance just doesn't exist anymore. 405 00:36:05,880 --> 00:36:13,380 And it's maybe it's one of the most gratifying parts of that experience. 406 00:36:14,410 --> 00:36:18,400 The understanding that we're still able to. 407 00:36:20,950 --> 00:36:24,100 To take care of ourselves to a certain degree without. 408 00:36:25,930 --> 00:36:32,680 All the other amenities that a society in the 21st century has for us. 409 00:36:34,080 --> 00:36:38,118 When you take that and you combine it with the with 410 00:36:38,142 --> 00:36:42,180 the solitude and with the opportunity to become. 411 00:36:43,370 --> 00:36:47,213 Incredibly well acquainted with a little spot 412 00:36:47,237 --> 00:36:51,080 of of the forest that is is almost your own. 413 00:36:53,730 --> 00:36:59,160 Those three things put together are what make the experience for me. 414 00:37:01,760 --> 00:37:04,977 I think a lot of people who talk about look out 415 00:37:05,001 --> 00:37:08,780 life who haven't haven't done it, don't necessarily. 416 00:37:09,970 --> 00:37:11,350 See all of that. 417 00:37:13,090 --> 00:37:17,345 You know, they might have seen a look out in a movie or TV show or 418 00:37:17,369 --> 00:37:22,150 played a look out video game, which was quite the rage a few years ago. 419 00:37:24,790 --> 00:37:30,010 And sometimes those experiences tend to emphasize. 420 00:37:31,790 --> 00:37:35,783 Emphasize the notion that fire lookouts are are hiding from 421 00:37:35,807 --> 00:37:39,800 civilization when in reality it's it's just the opposite. 422 00:37:39,890 --> 00:37:44,660 We're getting to know ourselves and our planet. 423 00:37:45,620 --> 00:37:50,408 And another group of people, of like minded people, I 424 00:37:50,432 --> 00:37:55,220 think even even better than anyone could anywhere else. 425 00:37:56,720 --> 00:38:02,493 Hopefully that made some sense. So Mark, question about all the warm 426 00:38:02,517 --> 00:38:08,290 Snuggie hugging things about look out life, which which are all true. 427 00:38:09,040 --> 00:38:14,889 Can you share some less than warm Snuggie hugging things like maybe when you 428 00:38:14,890 --> 00:38:19,900 were in the middle of a lightning storm and the pucker factor was really high? 429 00:38:21,820 --> 00:38:25,878 You know. People who haven't spent time at a 430 00:38:25,902 --> 00:38:29,960 lookout always, always ask me that question. 431 00:38:30,770 --> 00:38:36,440 They wonder if I see ghosts up there or if I've been afraid for my life up there. 432 00:38:37,190 --> 00:38:40,250 And, you know, the answer is really no. 433 00:38:42,140 --> 00:38:46,238 When you get a lightning storm. The last thing I think about 434 00:38:46,262 --> 00:38:50,360 is the possibility that the tower might get hit by lightning, 435 00:38:51,410 --> 00:38:55,496 because that's the moment of the look at experience when 436 00:38:55,520 --> 00:39:00,650 everything you've learned about your countryside and about the job, 437 00:39:00,920 --> 00:39:04,638 those things come into play immediately. When 438 00:39:04,662 --> 00:39:08,380 I get a lightning storm, I am on high alert. 439 00:39:08,390 --> 00:39:13,340 I'm running out to the catwalk. I am scanning every single lightning strike I can. 440 00:39:13,340 --> 00:39:19,229 I'm trying to map the locations of them. My adrenaline is 441 00:39:19,253 --> 00:39:25,880 going and I'm just in awe of the experience of watching that. 442 00:39:26,810 --> 00:39:32,959 Because, again, you're you're you're at an elevation that other people aren't in. 443 00:39:32,960 --> 00:39:36,770 You're in the lightning. Sometimes you're not you're not below it. 444 00:39:37,740 --> 00:39:43,380 And the sensation of it all is incredibly powerful. 445 00:39:44,190 --> 00:39:47,163 And I don't have time to be worried about it. 446 00:39:47,187 --> 00:39:50,160 I'm just too excited about experiencing it. 447 00:39:51,610 --> 00:39:55,510 And then also about looking for. 448 00:39:56,760 --> 00:40:01,740 A down strike. That might turn into a wildfire. 449 00:40:03,740 --> 00:40:12,330 And that's happened pretty much every summer. I remember Chell maybe in 2016 or so. 450 00:40:14,070 --> 00:40:19,770 You saw one of those down strikes on Pioneer Ridge at about two in the morning. 451 00:40:20,340 --> 00:40:24,978 And you called me up from firefighter and and we spent the 452 00:40:25,002 --> 00:40:30,210 next hour or so out on the catwalk in the middle of the night. 453 00:40:31,610 --> 00:40:35,180 Hoping that that bit of orange would resurface again. 454 00:40:35,870 --> 00:40:38,828 And it was just a ton of fun and we didn't see 455 00:40:38,852 --> 00:40:41,810 it until the next morning, but it was there. 456 00:40:42,050 --> 00:40:45,470 And you called it in and. 457 00:40:46,780 --> 00:40:49,830 They send a helicopter out there and they 458 00:40:49,854 --> 00:40:53,439 had it out by the by the end of the next day. 459 00:40:53,440 --> 00:41:02,290 And we had done our job. And that's what a storm like them is all about for me. 460 00:41:05,290 --> 00:41:12,243 Thanks for that little shine on my. There've been a couple of 461 00:41:12,267 --> 00:41:19,220 storms at Baptist though, that were honestly a little scary in. 462 00:41:21,030 --> 00:41:24,510 Oh, 2020, I think it was. 463 00:41:25,200 --> 00:41:30,330 We had a blizzard come in over the Labor Day weekend and. 464 00:41:31,890 --> 00:41:36,846 Everything. Everything got shut down. And I woke up in the morning and 465 00:41:36,870 --> 00:41:42,330 there was a wind that was pretty literally about 70 miles an hour outside. 466 00:41:42,330 --> 00:41:47,520 And the snow was coming down like crazy and the wind just kept going. 467 00:41:47,520 --> 00:41:52,050 And I couldn't go out on the catwalk safely. 468 00:41:53,790 --> 00:41:58,439 So I curled up in my bed under a quilt with the dogs. 469 00:41:58,440 --> 00:42:02,640 And we all, the three of us huddled under that thing for hours. 470 00:42:03,300 --> 00:42:07,846 And I started hearing things on the look how breaking the 471 00:42:07,870 --> 00:42:13,230 flagpole snapped in two and the top half of it blew off into the 472 00:42:13,230 --> 00:42:17,539 forest and the screen door was torn off the hinges and part 473 00:42:17,563 --> 00:42:22,320 of the doorframe went with it and one of the windows blew out. 474 00:42:22,320 --> 00:42:26,940 And pretty soon that corner of the lookout was starting to fill with snow. 475 00:42:28,040 --> 00:42:31,340 And, you know, I didn't I didn't feel. 476 00:42:32,620 --> 00:42:38,620 I didn't feel like I was in danger. But it was a sense of of. 477 00:42:40,950 --> 00:42:50,120 Realizing how much we are. That mercy to nature when we're in places like that. 478 00:42:50,860 --> 00:42:54,980 And, you know, I think that's also one of the one of the cool things. 479 00:42:55,850 --> 00:42:57,500 In so many different ways. 480 00:42:57,830 --> 00:43:02,063 You know, when you're out in the forest on your own like that, there are 481 00:43:02,087 --> 00:43:06,319 just lots of reminders that you're not at the top of nature's food chain. 482 00:43:06,320 --> 00:43:13,059 And and that's kind of cool. I know a few lookouts have had unfortunate 483 00:43:13,083 --> 00:43:20,690 experiences with other humans, too, but I that's never really happened to me. 484 00:43:21,050 --> 00:43:24,011 It takes a fair amount of effort to get up to 485 00:43:24,035 --> 00:43:27,470 Baptist. And the folks who've come up there have. 486 00:43:27,680 --> 00:43:32,090 Have uniformly been super excited to see it. 487 00:43:32,780 --> 00:43:39,230 Excited to get inside a lookout and experience what that at that moment is like. 488 00:43:42,910 --> 00:43:49,149 They appreciate what you're doing up there. And that makes me appreciate them. 489 00:43:49,150 --> 00:43:54,810 Have a. And that makes me appreciate having them there. 490 00:43:58,620 --> 00:44:02,249 At Cyclone. You know, I've had folks I had folks come up 491 00:44:02,273 --> 00:44:06,300 to cyclone in the middle of the night to look at the stars. 492 00:44:06,310 --> 00:44:11,543 And I heard people on the lookout steps at two in 493 00:44:11,567 --> 00:44:16,800 the morning and I had somebody else show up at the. 494 00:44:18,170 --> 00:44:21,320 Crack of dawn while I was still in bed and that sort of thing. 495 00:44:21,860 --> 00:44:23,840 But they're always happy to be there. 496 00:44:24,230 --> 00:44:28,773 And it's a reinforcement to you that you're you're doing 497 00:44:28,797 --> 00:44:34,250 something that's pretty special and that that people appreciate. 498 00:44:39,640 --> 00:44:44,620 I just. I can't come up with anything that's got that much of a pucker factor, though. 499 00:44:44,620 --> 00:44:48,590 Chill. Okay. 500 00:44:48,670 --> 00:44:54,550 That's okay. Okay. Anything else you want to throw at us? 501 00:45:01,980 --> 00:45:05,479 Oh, a couple of things, I guess. You know, we've 502 00:45:05,503 --> 00:45:09,750 talked a little bit about what the typical day is like. 503 00:45:11,700 --> 00:45:16,248 And I don't remember if I talked about the season 504 00:45:16,272 --> 00:45:20,820 too much last time or not, but the early season. 505 00:45:22,610 --> 00:45:25,680 You go up to a place like that on top of a 506 00:45:25,704 --> 00:45:29,450 mountain in northern Montana at the end of June. 507 00:45:29,600 --> 00:45:32,840 And the days are almost endless. 508 00:45:34,280 --> 00:45:37,384 It stays light until 1030 or so at night, and then the sun's 509 00:45:37,408 --> 00:45:40,460 coming through the windows before five the next morning, 510 00:45:41,210 --> 00:45:46,130 and everything is green and and the world is new. 511 00:45:46,250 --> 00:45:53,660 And then in September, you know, the days are hours shorter and. 512 00:45:54,760 --> 00:46:00,048 The air is cold and you feel. You feel like you're someplace 513 00:46:00,072 --> 00:46:05,360 where you're not going to be welcome in a few more weeks. 514 00:46:05,930 --> 00:46:10,310 And it's interesting watching that progression over time. 515 00:46:11,240 --> 00:46:15,260 It also changes how you look for fire. 516 00:46:16,590 --> 00:46:19,830 To the beginning of the summer. 517 00:46:19,980 --> 00:46:22,742 There's not a tremendous amount of fire danger in a 518 00:46:22,766 --> 00:46:25,860 lot of these places unless you have a lightning storm. 519 00:46:26,580 --> 00:46:30,750 But at the end of the summer, the odds of. 520 00:46:32,430 --> 00:46:37,320 Discovering a fire at a place like that, you'll start to go up pretty substantially. 521 00:46:37,350 --> 00:46:41,340 Most of the fires we see there are in late August and early September. 522 00:46:42,480 --> 00:46:49,410 And and so the experience of being up there over the course of the summer varies. 523 00:46:49,440 --> 00:46:53,700 There is a lot when you do see a fire. 524 00:46:56,260 --> 00:47:01,120 You're you're a full focus once just to that fire. 525 00:47:03,730 --> 00:47:09,500 I called in one last August that the. That the forest decided. 526 00:47:11,180 --> 00:47:17,049 To let burn. And so I spent a month watching it. 527 00:47:17,050 --> 00:47:21,470 But, you know, every day getting up at dawn, observing the fire, 528 00:47:21,590 --> 00:47:27,128 watching the fire over the course of the day and then into 529 00:47:27,152 --> 00:47:32,690 the night and understanding how the life of a fire goes to. 530 00:47:33,500 --> 00:47:38,772 And it was an interesting experience in that you begin 531 00:47:38,796 --> 00:47:43,969 to see fire as being a part of the landscape and a 532 00:47:43,970 --> 00:47:48,503 part of the a part of the world that you're experiencing 533 00:47:48,527 --> 00:47:52,730 and maybe not necessarily seeing it as the enemy. 534 00:47:53,870 --> 00:47:59,480 Which I think is the traditional. A way that people look at. 535 00:48:00,540 --> 00:48:08,950 At wildfires. Anything else, Jill? 536 00:48:08,970 --> 00:48:14,190 What else? Well, it's up to you if you've run out of steam. 537 00:48:14,250 --> 00:48:17,910 I'll turn it over to Beth to follow up with her. 538 00:48:18,890 --> 00:48:23,410 Question that we opened with. Yeah. 539 00:48:23,420 --> 00:48:28,820 So. What, Mark, I guess. 540 00:48:29,690 --> 00:48:33,968 Would you like to see when people come to visit 541 00:48:33,992 --> 00:48:38,269 you knowing that this is your place of work, 542 00:48:38,270 --> 00:48:43,790 but it's also where you live and that you are in charge of the place. 543 00:48:49,000 --> 00:48:53,890 You would probably get different answers to this from a few different lookouts. 544 00:48:55,150 --> 00:48:58,590 Some lookouts are pretty gregarious and love to have friends come up. 545 00:48:58,600 --> 00:49:03,580 And I've I've known a few over the years who are less like that. 546 00:49:04,450 --> 00:49:08,488 But I think by and large, most of us really enjoy having 547 00:49:08,512 --> 00:49:12,550 having visitors to talk to, at least in measured doses. 548 00:49:17,400 --> 00:49:20,208 The people are some people who worry about 549 00:49:20,232 --> 00:49:23,040 people coming up with firearms or, you know, 550 00:49:23,040 --> 00:49:25,338 bringing their dogs, thinking that they might get 551 00:49:25,362 --> 00:49:27,660 up and might not want to come back down again. 552 00:49:28,230 --> 00:49:32,748 And those types of experiences. And then also maybe just wanting to 553 00:49:32,772 --> 00:49:37,290 walk in on you without, you know, just open the door and walk in. 554 00:49:37,290 --> 00:49:39,720 Is that acceptable? I guess. 555 00:49:43,240 --> 00:49:48,772 I think the I think the best way to look at a coming to a fire lookout is 556 00:49:48,796 --> 00:49:54,790 to is to look at it not as being a tourist attraction or a hike destination, 557 00:49:54,790 --> 00:50:01,358 but as a visit to a person's home. If you're coming to a lookout, especially 558 00:50:01,382 --> 00:50:07,599 one that's in the backcountry, I always, always recommend that folks, 559 00:50:07,600 --> 00:50:12,070 as soon as they get inside of the lookout, that they that they call out and say hello. 560 00:50:13,510 --> 00:50:18,654 That gives us a chance to understand that somebody is out there 561 00:50:18,678 --> 00:50:24,320 and come out to the catwalk and and return the greeting, you know? 562 00:50:24,780 --> 00:50:28,540 You know, the last thing that any of us wants is to have, you know, somebody show up. 563 00:50:30,660 --> 00:50:34,914 In your living room when you're still in bed or in the middle 564 00:50:34,938 --> 00:50:39,120 of taking a shower on the catwalk or something like that. 565 00:50:39,480 --> 00:50:44,010 And so as soon as you get there, let us know. 566 00:50:46,740 --> 00:50:50,310 One other thing to remember is that if you haven't 567 00:50:50,334 --> 00:50:53,830 been to a lookout, it's a very confined space. 568 00:50:53,850 --> 00:50:58,590 The stairs are very steep. So keep an eye on your children. 569 00:50:58,620 --> 00:51:03,198 Keep an eye on your dogs. Don't bring either of them up to the 570 00:51:03,222 --> 00:51:07,800 lookout without getting permission from the person who's there. 571 00:51:09,930 --> 00:51:13,306 Sometimes dogs do great coming up and down the lookout 572 00:51:13,330 --> 00:51:17,090 stairs, and other people's dogs are absolutely terrified. 573 00:51:17,570 --> 00:51:22,350 I've I've seen people try to carry £80 black labs down that of lookout stairs. 574 00:51:22,800 --> 00:51:28,590 The dogs are brave enough to do it themselves. And so. 575 00:51:30,340 --> 00:51:35,590 As you get to the lookout, follow whatever instructions the lookout has to offer. 576 00:51:36,340 --> 00:51:42,120 Generally, it's a good idea to keep your keep your weapons outside the lookout tower, 577 00:51:42,130 --> 00:51:44,773 especially bear spray, because you don't want to 578 00:51:44,797 --> 00:51:47,440 have bear spray going off inside the lookout camp. 579 00:51:50,470 --> 00:51:54,760 Be excited about being there because generally we're excited about it too. 580 00:51:54,760 --> 00:51:58,263 And ask ask your questions and we'll love to answer 581 00:51:58,287 --> 00:52:01,720 them if you know you're coming up to a lookout. 582 00:52:02,320 --> 00:52:06,310 It also doesn't hurt to throw in a few snacks on the way. 583 00:52:06,670 --> 00:52:09,853 Keeping in mind that fire lookouts don't have a 584 00:52:09,877 --> 00:52:13,060 lot of fresh food over the course of the summer. 585 00:52:13,990 --> 00:52:20,218 Throw in a, you know, a bag of flathead cherries or a few apples and 586 00:52:20,242 --> 00:52:26,470 oranges or some trail mix or anything you want and bring me cookies. 587 00:52:27,820 --> 00:52:32,770 I had I had one friend pick me up ice cream one summer. 588 00:52:32,770 --> 00:52:35,290 And that was the most amazing of of treats ever. 589 00:52:37,920 --> 00:52:42,604 But I'd encourage folks to come visit because you'll learn a 590 00:52:42,628 --> 00:52:47,790 lot about a part of American life that is rapidly disappearing. 591 00:52:49,230 --> 00:52:53,748 But that has played a really integral part in how we 592 00:52:53,772 --> 00:52:58,290 care for the forests over the last 120 years or so. 593 00:52:59,520 --> 00:53:04,950 And yeah, I guess that's what I have to say about that. 594 00:53:05,340 --> 00:53:10,079 I might throw in a comment if you, as Joe Public knows it, 595 00:53:10,080 --> 00:53:13,338 you're going up to visit a particular lookout 596 00:53:13,362 --> 00:53:16,620 and it's staffed called the lookout or call 597 00:53:16,620 --> 00:53:19,783 the ranger station or the park office and see 598 00:53:19,807 --> 00:53:22,970 if they'll check with the person up there. 599 00:53:22,980 --> 00:53:26,583 There might be something that they're in desperate need of or 600 00:53:26,607 --> 00:53:30,209 something they have at the ranger station that needs to go up. 601 00:53:30,210 --> 00:53:33,600 And you can provide a way to help. 602 00:53:34,640 --> 00:53:38,393 Take that up. It's always a very kind thing to to let the lookout know 603 00:53:38,417 --> 00:53:42,170 that you're coming and see if there's something specific you can bring. 604 00:53:43,220 --> 00:53:50,570 Yeah. And I really do encourage people to come visit these places. 605 00:53:52,010 --> 00:53:56,798 You know, they may or may not be around forever. Certainly, there 606 00:53:56,822 --> 00:54:01,610 are fewer operating lookouts now than there were even 20 years ago. 607 00:54:01,760 --> 00:54:06,230 And it's a part of our legacy, 608 00:54:06,350 --> 00:54:13,523 but it's also a way to understand a part of nature and a part of our 609 00:54:13,547 --> 00:54:20,720 our world that you're not going to be able to to see anywhere else. 610 00:54:21,870 --> 00:54:24,795 So, you know, if if if you'd been to the Flathead 611 00:54:24,819 --> 00:54:27,560 National Forest right before World War two, 612 00:54:28,100 --> 00:54:33,200 there were close to 150 lookout sites extant on the forest. 613 00:54:34,160 --> 00:54:39,652 And, you know, by. A decade or so later, by the 19th and early 614 00:54:39,676 --> 00:54:45,980 fifties or so, they were still staffing three or four dozen of them. 615 00:54:46,160 --> 00:54:52,910 But then by the seventies. That number had dropped to a quarter of that. 616 00:54:53,330 --> 00:54:57,650 And then by the nineties there were only two staffed in the Flathead National Forest. 617 00:54:58,520 --> 00:55:03,950 We're up to seven staff lookouts now, thanks in part to the volunteer program. 618 00:55:04,910 --> 00:55:09,260 But it's an experience. It's still an experience that is rare. 619 00:55:10,490 --> 00:55:14,690 And even even more rare in a lot of other places. 620 00:55:15,650 --> 00:55:18,950 Many national forests don't have staff lookouts at all anymore. 621 00:55:20,030 --> 00:55:23,577 So come on up to the Flathead and hike up to Baptiste 622 00:55:23,601 --> 00:55:27,080 if you like, and say hello to me and I'd love it. 623 00:55:28,840 --> 00:55:32,350 Hey, Mark, I appreciate you spending the time with us today. 624 00:55:32,620 --> 00:55:36,782 Gives us a little better understanding of your 625 00:55:36,806 --> 00:55:41,710 addiction and and why you are not interested in in. 626 00:55:43,530 --> 00:55:48,743 Controlling it in any way, shape or form. I might just mention that 627 00:55:48,767 --> 00:55:53,979 I think that's and I both appreciated a little break from reality. 628 00:55:53,980 --> 00:55:57,400 Of course, Beth's in Arizona right now, so she's warm and Snuggie. 629 00:55:57,790 --> 00:56:02,604 When I got up this morning, it was four degrees. I saw a message on 630 00:56:02,628 --> 00:56:08,319 Facebook from Sam Sarah in West Yellowstone on her way to work this morning. 631 00:56:08,320 --> 00:56:14,493 It was -44. So just in our minds, visiting summer in 632 00:56:14,517 --> 00:56:20,690 the look world kind of takes us away from reality. 633 00:56:22,300 --> 00:56:27,260 Then come join me and get your early season fix. 634 00:56:28,960 --> 00:56:32,518 That's that's the truth, you two. And that and 635 00:56:32,542 --> 00:56:36,100 that's true in a broader sense to you know, 636 00:56:36,100 --> 00:56:41,259 when you look at the news every morning and and most of the news is 637 00:56:41,283 --> 00:56:46,990 horrible and you sometimes worry about the future of of humanity, even. 638 00:56:48,850 --> 00:56:51,580 There's something about being. 639 00:56:53,980 --> 00:56:57,813 Able to disconnect from that and reconnect with our natural 640 00:56:57,837 --> 00:57:02,200 world in one of these places, that seems all the more important. 641 00:57:03,670 --> 00:57:08,364 Well, and if I could just kind of add to what you said earlier 642 00:57:08,388 --> 00:57:12,850 about how interesting it is that you're the only person. 643 00:57:13,850 --> 00:57:19,568 They're to experience many, many of the things you talked about the you 644 00:57:19,592 --> 00:57:25,310 know, the lighting and mother bears with cubs and that sort of thing. 645 00:57:26,060 --> 00:57:31,012 I experienced when I was a cyclone with a friend that came 646 00:57:31,036 --> 00:57:35,900 up and she brought her dog in her tent and she camped. 647 00:57:35,900 --> 00:57:41,450 And then we watched the solar or the solar eclipse the next morning as it came by. 648 00:57:41,960 --> 00:57:48,410 And that is something you're not going to see very often, just, you know, by yourself. 649 00:57:48,440 --> 00:57:51,652 There was one guy who came up, this was a cyclone 650 00:57:51,676 --> 00:57:54,620 lookout and he walked up, but that was it. 651 00:57:55,100 --> 00:57:57,850 So it was pretty special. Yeah. 652 00:57:58,000 --> 00:58:04,263 There there are these moments that are somehow incredibly meaningful and 653 00:58:04,287 --> 00:58:11,080 somehow also often hard to work to convey, yet make the whole thing unique. 654 00:58:11,770 --> 00:58:16,456 I remember hearing from Churchill one day when he was at 655 00:58:16,480 --> 00:58:21,849 firefighter and he had had heard wolves howling just outside. 656 00:58:21,850 --> 00:58:27,220 They look out and what a cool thing that was. 657 00:58:28,240 --> 00:58:32,710 Yeah, that's those moments that's etched on my soul forever. 658 00:58:33,010 --> 00:58:36,399 So much cooler than you can ever describe to. 659 00:58:36,400 --> 00:58:41,780 And that's the thing. Well, awesome, guys. 660 00:58:42,830 --> 00:58:45,890 Mark, thanks for sharing part of your history with us. 661 00:58:46,490 --> 00:58:51,593 Gives us a better idea of our own addiction and what a 662 00:58:51,617 --> 00:58:56,720 rare and privileged summertime adventure it is to spend. 663 00:58:57,760 --> 00:59:02,818 In outer space on top of the mountain. I opened the session by 664 00:59:02,842 --> 00:59:07,899 saying that the Northwest Montana Lookout Association was ten, 665 00:59:07,900 --> 00:59:13,270 eight and in service, just a little bit of history from a geyser standpoint. 666 00:59:13,270 --> 00:59:19,051 When I first started staffing a look out 50 plus years ago, the federal 667 00:59:19,075 --> 00:59:25,600 agencies were kind of in transition, going from ground line phones to radios. 668 00:59:25,990 --> 00:59:30,370 Those early radios were big and bulky and they didn't carry. 669 00:59:32,430 --> 00:59:41,580 Very effectively words. So agencies used ten and four codes to talk to each other. 670 00:59:42,120 --> 00:59:47,146 And one of the. One of the things I remember is every radio 671 00:59:47,170 --> 00:59:52,110 had a little sticker of the ten code and the four code. 672 00:59:53,850 --> 00:59:58,383 And so, Mark Beth, either one of you have anything 673 00:59:58,407 --> 01:00:02,940 you want to throw in before I put us out of service? 674 01:00:04,720 --> 01:00:09,160 Just. Many thanks, Mark. This is great again. So good to see you. 675 01:00:09,820 --> 01:00:13,900 Got it. Good. Always good to see both of you guys. 676 01:00:13,900 --> 01:00:19,330 And great to talk lookouts with a couple of old friends who share my passion. 677 01:00:19,660 --> 01:00:23,381 And I'll look forward to seeing both of you in three 678 01:00:23,405 --> 01:00:26,980 or four months when we start up another summer. 679 01:00:28,400 --> 01:00:36,410 Hey, thanks, guys. And this is the Northwest Montana chapter of the Look Association. 680 01:00:36,890 --> 01:00:39,470 Going ten seven at a service.